Deric Gilliard - 4 Long Years Working Under The Trump Administration

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Where to go after a few few reschedules trying to

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make this happen. Absolutely technical difficulties in the beginning. Anyway,

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we're here. I appreciate your time, uh because you're time different,

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so you're ahead of me. I know you're more like

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in the evening right now, So appreciate that. Uh. You

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caught my attention because I saw that you had that

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new book that that's out. Obviously you see that right

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up there on your screen. However, my finger works, which

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is great because I think it's it's relevant to what's

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kind of been happening, and I really wanted to get

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a first time account from somebody who served under the administration. Uh,

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your tenure was during his first term, and we are

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talking about Trump as everybody should know that. It's where we're going.

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And it's also pretty much all over all over the

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back cover of your book and everything, uh, twenty five

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years and that you that you uh serve right, what

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was what? All this was interesting? I want to I

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want to touch on this too, Derek, if you're okay,

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was your time with HHS. I am going to want

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to get your opinion on Robert Kennedy. What do you

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think of that?

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Absolutely.

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We can go a lot of a lot of ways here,

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but anyway, I do appreciate your time, your your you're historian,

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you you you served in health and human Services, you

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served under the Trump term, You got a lot of experience,

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man a lot of knowledge. So I'm hoping we have

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a great conversation. I'm pretty sure I will. I've watched

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some of your other interviews. There are great a lot

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of a lot of knowledge, a lot of history. So

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that's awesome. But let's let's let's start. Let's start with

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why you felt behooved to write this book, and and

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I think it is relevant because with everything's going on

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right now, it seems like in the Maga movement to speak,

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so to speak, that there's a riff now, like people

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are losing a little bit of trust for maybe thinking, hey,

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promise is made not kept, et cetera. And you may

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have a little insight from your perspective serving under the administration.

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So if you can, why don't you expand on why

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you want to write the book? You already wrote it,

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but what was the motivator?

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Yeah, And to be honest, George, this wasn't something that

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I wanted to do. Now my first book was I

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would consider a labor of Love and just if you

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don't mind me mentioning. Before I went to AHHS, I

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served as the communications director for the organization started by

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doctor King, the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, and he led

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that until his assassination in nineteen sixty eight. And then

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my oldest son started having seizures out of the blue.

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We couldn't figure it out. There's a little organization that

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covered me and didn't give insurance for my family and kids.

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I had to go get coming out of the cold

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and get a job that did and that's what led

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me to AHHS. But this administration, George was very different

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than any of the others I began with Clinton. So

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I worked the last two years of Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump,

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and Biden and this was a singular seminal experience and

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I could tell it was going to be very different immediately,

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and being a historian and a journalist, I said, I

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need to start writing this down. And it was tough

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for a lot of reasons. It was tough because it

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shook my belief and understanding and concept of who and

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what America is. Because it was just a very different animal,

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and so I knew that it was going to meet

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with a lot of challenges, a lot of people were

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not going to be happy with it, And I think

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he has this. I would say an arm of his

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support is fairly fanatical. I knew that there were imminent

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dangers that I would be risking personally and also the

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people that I cared about, you know, because hey, he

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released six thousand of them from from prison a few

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months ago.

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So lots of things that I thought about.

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But as somebody who again had been mentored under the

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UH the people that served for and with Doctor King,

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I understood I had I felt I had a responsibility,

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and I felt because I was in a unique position

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to write and tell some of the things that I

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experienced and seen and how some of his policies impacted

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people not in the DC Beltway, but out in the

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real world, particularly here in the eighth Southeastern States, where

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which is one of the heartland the center points of

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his support. You think because ike in examples, the way

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Obama had designed Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act, it was

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supposed to be something that all eight states would used

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to expand Medicaid to provide health insurance for people in

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many instances who never had it, and but seven of

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our governor eight governors were against it. They were conservative,

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they were Republican. Even though they had fantastic health insurance,

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they weren't concerned about getting their people health insurance. And

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in many of the instances, some of his base who

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were actually poor white people, and they're more poor white

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people on Medicaid than there are poor black people, quiet

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as it's kept and Latinos, you know, yeah, you know

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what I'm saying. So so they instead of voting, they

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voted against their own best interests to vote with the

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wealthy white guy that was in the governor's mansion, and

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so they didn't expand Medicaid. And so those are some

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of the kind of issues that I dealt with. And

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so I felt compelled as a as a historian and

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a journalist to chronicle this time because I thought it

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was unprecedented in the modern era. So I just started

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keeping a bunch of notes all the things I had

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to write, all of the people I interacted with, and

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I knew I couldn't write it while I was.

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In you know, still in the government.

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And so it's taken a long time because again I

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knew there will be a lot of challenges to it.

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So it's heavily footnoted and heavily resourced, and I think

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it's it's a pretty good viewpoint or encapsulation from three perspectives.

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And I write from the perspective of being a black

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man in America as being somebody who's a Christian, a

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person of faith, and thirdly, somebody who leans into justice

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and believes that you know, this, this, this country, this

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melting pot of a country we had, has been largely

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built by people who you know, have come from all over,

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whether they were brought here, brought here against their will,

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or they immigrants it here. And so I think that

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that's the true America. And I thought that for those reasons,

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and so the history, I thought this was a book

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that would basically be in history departments, African American studies,

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social studies, all these public policy departments. But of course,

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because of the current president's assault on DEI and blackness

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and other things, you know, colleges can't touch it. So

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I'm in a in a strange place. But I did.

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I did it because I thought it was an important

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thing to do, and I was well placed to do it.

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And so somebody had to gotcha. Well, that's a lot

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of reasons. Honestly, it's a lot of reasons. So did

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you did you feel that the administration of the time

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was literally going out of the way to put a

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stop to access to those in need at that time?

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Absolutely? Absolutely? Uh.

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You know, he had the Republicans and largely Donald Trump

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had tried over seventy times in courte to quote unquote

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to overturn the Affordable Care Act. Their whole thing was

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replace and repeal it. They got something better, then we're

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going to kill this and bring in something better.

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And they failed every time.

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And the most famous time was when John McCain got

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up out of his deathbed and you know, when he

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was suffering from cancer and came to vote and he

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did the infamous thumbs down and that was the deciding factor.

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But you know what we find, George, Historically, it's hard

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to take something away from people once you give it

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to him. I think when Medicare first came out people

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a little over sixty years ago, people didn't think it

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was going to be important, it was going to last then.

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And now, of course there's an assault on Medicare, just

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like there is Social Security and Medicaid. All of these

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things are up up in the air in terms of

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how much of there them are going to survive, and

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so I that that was a real big part of it.

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Got it.

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So the the the assault on Medicare. Let's because when

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this originally rolled out, Affordable Care Act, you you worked

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on the inside, So maybe you can enlighten me more

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and what exactly they didn't like. I mean, I have

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a great idea. I'm going to tell you from my

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perspective that I was an entrepreneur for many years and

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had to pay my own health insurance. So I have

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a different view on the whole Affordable Care Act. The

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way it affected someone like me was a lot different,

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But doesn't mean that I don't think everybody should have healthcare.

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So I just want to throw that out there. Just

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we may have different takes on this based on our experiences,

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is what I'm going to get at. So as far

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as as far as what happened there with the administration,

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I'm gonna admit this Trump is a hammer. He's not

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he's not He's not good at he's not good at

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putting a plan together and saying this is how we're

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going to get there. He's just like, no, we're doing

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this now, and this is happening, and then everybody just

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got to figure out how they're going to make it happen,

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and a lot of people do get left out. So

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you know, we have to we have to at least

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admit that, right. It's it's it's not a perfect way

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to run the country, admittedly, and it's not an easy

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thing to deal with, and you dealt with the firsthand.

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So while I can see what he's doing in this term,

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he's done some good things, but now it's like he's

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turning back the other way, and people are kind of like, hey,

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what's going on. I thought you said this, but now

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you're doing the other thing. And so that's why, you know,

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when when you had this book, I'm like, okay, I

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really need to know your perspective, like what did you see,

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Like what did you witness firsthand? And what you stated

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in terms of why you wanted to write the book.

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We're all very valid reasons. I mean, from your perspective,

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everything that you went through, I get it. Now, can

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you explain more to me though the attack on Obamacare,

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Like what was it specifically they were trying to do?

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Because I I was part of the whole thing. When

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we're we're all going through it, right. We want to repeal,

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we want it, we want we write it, we want

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to redo it. But do you know from your perspective

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from working, I mean you were at HHS at the time,

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I'm assuming, so what was it they didn't like?

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Like?

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What about it? Were they really trying to dismantle?

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So there were a couple of things in particular, I

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think one was everybody, whether you were male, even part

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of that. If you chose not to get your health insurance,

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you were assessed essentially, it's like attacks and a lot

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of men didn't like that because they felt like, well.

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I'm never going to get pregnant.

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So like there was something called ten essential Health Benefits,

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and one of them made sure that women's part of

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it was that women could get healthcare and have access

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to all that went into pre natal and postnatal. And

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the guy says, well, some of the guys said, well,

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I'm not going to have a baby, why should I

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pay to help support women do that? So that was

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one concern and people felt, like a lot of them

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that hey, I can choose not to have health care.

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I don't have to and so it was based on

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all these people in being part of the pot, and

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so if people could choose to pull out of the pot,

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they had to pay a penalty. And people felt like, well,

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nobody should be able to tell me I have to

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have health care. It's almost like with the vaccines. Okay,

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a lot of people said, well, look, you're telling me

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if I'm going to go here and be in this environment,

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I can't come there if I don't have a vaccine

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card that says that I had a shot. So I

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understand how people would have an issue on both of

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those fronts. I do because part of being American, I

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think a lot of people say is that you can't

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tell me what to do and what not to do.

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If I choose not to, then I have that right.

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Well, I do understand and have a respect for that perspective.

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I also know that the only way we can help see.

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One of the key things about the Affordable Care Act

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was the part of the tenant central health benefits. It

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was really designed to do preventative care because a lot

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of people in this country who are uninsured would wait

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until they were like half dead, and then they dragged

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themselves to the emergency room, and that care always costs

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three to four times as much because it was acute care.

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You were trying to keep people alive, whereas if you

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have preventative care, you can maybe catch cancer early.

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You can see signs.

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Where you can treat people for obesity, you can prevent

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strokes and heart attacks. So a lot of that was

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what that was designed to do. And you know, you

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have a lot of people, and I'm sure you have

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run across some of these. They're essentially the working for

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and they work every day. Maybe they have a couple

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of gig jobs. Maybe they park cars and they wait tables,

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or they do hair, you know, they do different things,

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but they don't make enough money to have a place

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to live, have transportation, you know, to have insure their car,

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and have health insurance. And so you're putting people in

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I'm not sure we're putting people, but people are in

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a position and in many instances, george' these are the people

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who who make our economy go. You know, they're the

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ones that do things that most of us don't want

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to do. And it makes me think about the immigrant population.

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You know, we're rounding up all these people and most

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of them have no criminal record, have you know, nothing

261
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that they've done wrong. But they're doing work that most

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Americans are unwilling to do. They're laboring out in the

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hot sun, you know, harvesting our crops, and they're you know,

264
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cutting our yards and building and doing all these things.

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And so, I you know, that's that's that's when you

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mentioned that, a lot of people said, well, I knew

267
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it's going to do this. I didn't expect him to

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do that. And I think that some of those are

269
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what's going on. But yeah, so those were the two

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big objections. Men didn't think that they some men didn't

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think it was fair for them to be charged to

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pay something that they couldn't they were never going to

273
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benefit from personally. I mean, they could have a wife

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or a girlfriend or something they got pregnant, but they

275
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weren't going to have to do that. And secondly, they

276
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didn't like the tax that they had to pay if

277
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they chose not to get it right.

278
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Yeah, well, and I think you're correct on that sentiments

279
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because look where nation were born on rebellions. So what

280
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you said earlier, I agree with you. And I think

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when Obama, I think when the Affordable Care Act became

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Obamacare when it first rolled out, I think intention was fine.

283
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I understood it, Uh perspective is what it did, and

284
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disagree what it did. What I noticed is it really

285
00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:12.159
eventually price fixed the insurance industry. And here's where I'm

286
00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:13.919
going with that. No matter where you go to try

287
00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:16.080
to get a quote, all of a sudden, your price

288
00:16:16.120 --> 00:16:17.759
is the same, no matter what market you go to.

289
00:16:18.759 --> 00:16:21.000
The only people that were able to benefit from Obamacare

290
00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:24.159
were those that met a certain threshold in where you

291
00:16:24.200 --> 00:16:27.159
were within a certain threshold of poverty level. If you're

292
00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:30.960
self employed, you're pretty much screwed. You didn't really get

293
00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:35.000
any benefit. It kind of changed that recently. I noticed

294
00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:36.960
you do get a little something now, even for your

295
00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:39.440
self employed, but it's nowhere near what it used to be.

296
00:16:39.919 --> 00:16:42.159
I remember before the Obamacare thing kicked in, and this

297
00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:45.360
is before my business was like full time kicked off.

298
00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:47.799
You know, I still had other jobs, but I remember

299
00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:50.200
my insurance used to be pretty low. Then after Obamacare,

300
00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:52.720
it was like, there's no way I can afford it.

301
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It made no difference to me. Now that was not

302
00:16:55.679 --> 00:16:58.879
everybody's situation. But I'm just giving the perspective from self employed,

303
00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:02.720
like entrepreneur and I understand why we needed it for

304
00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:04.319
those that didn't need it, Like if you're at a

305
00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:07.839
certain level of poverty, yeah, you know you need that.

306
00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:10.279
I get that, but it didn't really benefit everybody as

307
00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:13.039
a whole, and especially when it came down to the pricing.

308
00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:15.039
And again I'm not making this up. I mean, you

309
00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:17.799
can go to any marketplace right now, punch in your information.

310
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Doesn't matter if it's under you know, like a California

311
00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:22.039
government website. It doesn't matter if it's Obamacare or whatever

312
00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:24.640
it is. The insurance industry right now, no matter what

313
00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:26.039
when it comes to healthcare, you're going to get the

314
00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:30.440
same price for the package regardless. And that trickled into

315
00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:33.000
other parts of insurance. But we're talking healthcare right now.

316
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That's my perspective. By the way, it's just what I experienced.

317
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So this isn't really like an argument against you. It's

318
00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:40.599
just this is kind of what I went through. And

319
00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:42.319
I think a lot of people that were in my

320
00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:44.799
situation saw that. I think that's what they were opposed to.

321
00:17:44.839 --> 00:17:46.640
It didn't really seem like a free market anymore. It's

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00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:49.279
what it was. I forgot what year it was when

323
00:17:49.279 --> 00:17:51.880
they were supposed to make it an open market, and

324
00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:55.519
that never really happened either, especially in California. So when

325
00:17:55.519 --> 00:17:58.319
we're in California, I was allegedly supposed to be able

326
00:17:58.319 --> 00:17:59.759
to say, Okay, well, if the markets are open, I'm

327
00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:02.680
going to go see how much health insurance is in Washington.

328
00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:04.920
For example, they have an insurance company in Washington. Great,

329
00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:06.799
I can get a quote from them if they'll still

330
00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:09.559
cover me where I live. Never happens. As soon as

331
00:18:09.559 --> 00:18:12.039
you put your information, the IP catches you, says, oh

332
00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:14.480
you're in California, kicks me right back to the other website.

333
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So where's the open market? So I think the frustrations

334
00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:21.640
were really more that stuff. I don't think anybody was

335
00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:25.200
really against you know, people in need getting actual care.

336
00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:27.240
I know I wasn't. I thought it was a great idea,

337
00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:29.000
Like I said, at first, I was like, yeah, this

338
00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:32.799
just makes a lot of sense. And from my perspective, yeah,

339
00:18:32.839 --> 00:18:34.279
if I didn't want health insurance, why should I have

340
00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:37.400
to pay a tax? Yeah, you know, I think that's

341
00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:40.119
a bit minor in comparison. But I think where the

342
00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:43.319
sticking point was is when people realize, like, this is

343
00:18:43.359 --> 00:18:45.480
supposed to be cheaper and more affordable, but I'm not

344
00:18:45.559 --> 00:18:48.319
really seeing it. And again, that was when you got

345
00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:52.160
past a certain threshold. So it wasn't applicable to everybody,

346
00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:54.880
but those that were in a certain spot where your

347
00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:57.559
employer regards so much we're getting paid, you weren't going

348
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to make you know, you weren't going to get affordable healthcare.

349
00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:03.200
School districts are a perfect example of that, right, a

350
00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:05.160
lot of school districts, they don't always get a good

351
00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:08.359
negotiation when it comes to healthcare. So it's like, okay,

352
00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:10.359
healthcare for you, great, this is how much it is.

353
00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:12.440
But if you want your spouse, it's literally double now.

354
00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:14.920
So it's a thousand for you, will cover eight hundred.

355
00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:16.839
But if you have your spouse, now it's sixteen hundred

356
00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:21.359
for her plus whatever you're paying. And people in that

357
00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:27.079
situation didn't really get the advantages. I don't believe. So again,

358
00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:28.920
just a counterpoint just.

359
00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:32.839
Makes sense because and I think that everybody sees it

360
00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:36.920
from their perspective first exactly you can see it beyond that,

361
00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:38.720
but I mean the main thing is how does it

362
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impact you and your family? And I get that, and

363
00:19:41.559 --> 00:19:45.640
so part of I think the problem too is it

364
00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:49.359
was imperfect. There's no question about it, I think, and

365
00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:51.839
I don't know if you realized this, but seven presidents

366
00:19:51.920 --> 00:19:55.839
before Obama had tried to pass some form of universal

367
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health care and for some reason it worked out with him.

368
00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:04.599
But then the goal should have been, Okay, let's all

369
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work together to make this better. Like you said, we're

370
00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:12.799
small businessmen and women are struggling here. What can we

371
00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:15.960
do to level upon a field so they benefit from

372
00:20:16.039 --> 00:20:21.319
it too? And but there wasn't that kind of collegiality.

373
00:20:21.559 --> 00:20:27.920
Like Mitch McConnell of Kentucky at the end of the

374
00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:31.279
Senate leader at the time, he said his mission was

375
00:20:31.319 --> 00:20:35.319
to make Obama one term president. So I'm saying instead

376
00:20:35.319 --> 00:20:38.319
of them coming together to work on making it better,

377
00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:42.160
you know, then there was this fight to kill it,

378
00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:47.160
to make it, you know, ineffective. And and that's and

379
00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:49.440
that's I'm not even saying that's a Republican or a

380
00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:53.279
Democratic name, but I'm saying that's something that that really

381
00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:56.200
because in the end, you want the people to benefit.

382
00:20:56.680 --> 00:20:58.920
Yeah, I agree with you, I do, and the and

383
00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:00.920
that's what we wont you, right, there were multiple presidents

384
00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:02.720
who tried to do this, but they weren't able to

385
00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:06.799
make it happen. But I thought it was a good idea.

386
00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:09.920
But like all good ideas, once it gets into play,

387
00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:12.400
you got other people start getting their fingers in their

388
00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:14.200
hands into it and it starts becoming something else. So

389
00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:16.079
I'm not even gonna blame Obama for any of it.

390
00:21:16.599 --> 00:21:19.319
He had a great idea, is just as time went on,

391
00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:21.839
it kind of became something else. I think that's kind

392
00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:25.640
of what led to it. But you know, I do

393
00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:28.960
see where the perspective is is that, yeah, he's attacking

394
00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:33.000
you know, Trump at the time was attacking it without

395
00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:35.359
any cause or just cause. Was just like, I just

396
00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:37.480
don't like Obama, so I'm just gonna repeal everything he did.

397
00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:39.160
And there was a lot of truth to that. By

398
00:21:39.160 --> 00:21:39.640
the way.

399
00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:43.039
Yeah, you remember, I don't know if you remember.

400
00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:46.599
At the well, they call it it's the dinner that

401
00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:48.119
the journalists have every year.

402
00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:48.960
It's a big dinner.

403
00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:55.119
I think, yeah, they spoofed the president, but he actually

404
00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:58.160
Trump was in the audience and he said he pointed

405
00:21:58.200 --> 00:22:00.240
out that Trump was the one that came up with

406
00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:04.279
the birther theory. You know that he wasn't born in America,

407
00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:06.680
and I think you could see trouble over there steaming

408
00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:09.799
at him, and I think he had. I guess I

409
00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:12.079
can say it's an adult program. I made a heart

410
00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:14.920
on to destroy Obama and his legacy after that. I

411
00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:17.960
just really do, because you can tell he's a punitive

412
00:22:18.119 --> 00:22:21.000
He's a kind of guy that's go. He's revenge as

413
00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:24.240
high on his priority list as we can see now

414
00:22:24.279 --> 00:22:27.240
with some of these people he's going after. So yeah,

415
00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:29.240
I think that was part of it. I really do.

416
00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:34.480
I hear you, man, that's but that aside. I mean

417
00:22:34.519 --> 00:22:38.480
that that that that was definitely I think a mis

418
00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:42.839
understood situation came to the Obamacare. My think, my thing

419
00:22:42.839 --> 00:22:45.839
with the whole deal is now everybody says, you know,

420
00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:50.480
they're gutting Medicaid, it's not really being gutted. It's they're putting.

421
00:22:50.599 --> 00:22:52.960
They're putting certain stipulations in there. Now you have to

422
00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:54.519
work so many hours if you want to keep it.

423
00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:56.440
For example, and it literally when it breaks down. I mean,

424
00:22:56.480 --> 00:22:58.720
I could work two hours a day and get Medicaid

425
00:22:58.839 --> 00:23:01.519
if I can. It was really forty hours a month.

426
00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:04.640
It wasn't a lot to ask, but you know it

427
00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:07.720
can be for those who literally are completely immobile. So

428
00:23:08.039 --> 00:23:10.759
what about those people? Right? Some people literally can't leave

429
00:23:10.759 --> 00:23:15.480
the house, So it does hit those people. When the

430
00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:20.920
Affordable Care Act came out, a lot of people don't

431
00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:23.279
even realize or think about this because people do have

432
00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:25.359
short memories and it's all about likes, clicks and whatever

433
00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:29.160
the news cycle is. But Obama actually, let me ver effect.

434
00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:32.559
I don't want to lie to you. Let me see. Yeah,

435
00:23:32.680 --> 00:23:35.119
seven hundred and fifty billion dollars was actually taken for

436
00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:38.960
Medicare when the Affordable Care Act was being rolled out,

437
00:23:39.039 --> 00:23:42.240
and then taxes were raised by a trillion pay for it.

438
00:23:42.599 --> 00:23:47.000
Now we understand why, right, you're trying to change things

439
00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:49.599
and morph it from you know, you're relying on this

440
00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:54.480
certain service, correct Medicaid, and they were trying to put

441
00:23:54.559 --> 00:23:56.920
some of what was offered there into Obamacare. So I

442
00:23:57.039 --> 00:24:00.200
understand it, but we also have to understand that, Know,

443
00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:05.640
it wasn't just one present presently Trump who's targeting Medicaid.

444
00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:07.759
I mean there was many presents before that tried to

445
00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:10.599
do something with medicator even with Social Security. I mean

446
00:24:10.599 --> 00:24:11.799
they're even trying to get rid of it. And it

447
00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:15.519
wasn't just Trump who did it. I'm not a trump Trumper,

448
00:24:15.559 --> 00:24:17.240
by the way, I'm just pointing things out, So I

449
00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:19.440
just want to understand that that I hope you don't

450
00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:22.160
feel that's what I'm doing here now. But I'm just

451
00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:24.759
trying to go over the facts, especially when it comes

452
00:24:24.799 --> 00:24:26.920
to the immigration side, which we can touch on later.

453
00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:29.720
But you know, I don't want to veer too far

454
00:24:29.799 --> 00:24:32.559
off from your book because I also want to get

455
00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:35.160
to a lot of the information you have in what

456
00:24:35.240 --> 00:24:37.880
you experienced. We can touch on the other topics later

457
00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:40.680
if you'd like, but getting back to what you wrote,

458
00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:43.200
so I see what you were saying about how you

459
00:24:43.240 --> 00:24:44.599
know when he came in, he was just he was

460
00:24:44.599 --> 00:24:46.240
like a bull in a china shop. He's just like, no,

461
00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:49.200
we're doing this now, And you know, I get hit

462
00:24:49.240 --> 00:24:51.240
the intentions, but he was also leaving a lot of

463
00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:53.880
people to figure it out and go like, what's next? Right,

464
00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:57.279
all of a sudden, my healthcare it's in question, is

465
00:24:57.319 --> 00:24:58.799
it isn't it? Like a lot of people didn't know

466
00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:03.440
what's going on. The other things that he did that

467
00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:06.440
you saw, like what else did you experience firsthand while

468
00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:09.920
working in the administration that was really like a red flag?

469
00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:12.599
Feel like, oh, this guy's this guy's nuts, right.

470
00:25:12.759 --> 00:25:13.519
Sure, he's sure.

471
00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:16.519
So one of the things they kept talking about how

472
00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:17.799
bad Obamacare was.

473
00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:19.000
It was terrible.

474
00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:22.680
It was terrible, and they waited till a couple weeks

475
00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:26.440
before open enrollment, so every year there's an open enrollment. Now,

476
00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:29.839
by the way, they cut open enrollment to less than

477
00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:33.079
half of what it was his first year. And the

478
00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:36.039
other thing they did they slashed all the advertising and

479
00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:40.000
promotion to between the third and a half of what

480
00:25:40.119 --> 00:25:44.480
it was, and they prevented our offices from being out

481
00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:49.279
supporting the navigators and the federally qualified health centers. The

482
00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:54.519
people who were out messaging and helping people. The real

483
00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:58.240
people who most needed to help George tended to be

484
00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:02.319
the elderly, the people who were less educated, who were

485
00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:07.440
less computer savvy. Those are the people because health insurance

486
00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:10.559
is pretty complex and so those people needed somebody to

487
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:14.480
hold their hand and walk them through it. So those

488
00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:18.720
are the people who were going to suffer from not having,

489
00:26:19.039 --> 00:26:21.680
you know, some help from people. And then there were

490
00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:24.480
insurance agents too that help, and of course they were

491
00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:26.960
doing it and making money, but the other people were

492
00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:29.279
doing it because they were just contracted to do it

493
00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:31.880
or they thought it needed to be done. So that

494
00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:35.519
was a real problem because For example, I spent a

495
00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:38.200
lot of time in the state of Mississippi. We had

496
00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:41.079
eight states in the southeast. I was responsible at the

497
00:26:41.119 --> 00:26:44.519
time for four of them. Mississippi was our poorest state.

498
00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:48.440
It was a state that was the least educated, the

499
00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:54.079
most health disparities, It was the blackest state because and

500
00:26:54.119 --> 00:26:57.240
it had the deepest messiges of Jim Crow and slavery.

501
00:26:57.640 --> 00:27:01.799
So there were so many people there who had helped

502
00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:07.680
build over several generations the wealth in this country who

503
00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:10.680
had never had health insurance. And so for us to

504
00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:14.480
not be able to go in and support the mayors

505
00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:17.880
and the county commissioners and people like the Children's Defense

506
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:23.599
Fund and the National Baptist Convention and the NAACP, those

507
00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:26.079
people who were out there helping people. A lot of

508
00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:28.640
those were doing and weren't getting paid, but they thought

509
00:27:28.680 --> 00:27:31.160
it was important. And so for them to tell us

510
00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:34.920
we couldn't go out and help those people, I thought

511
00:27:35.079 --> 00:27:37.759
was I thought there was problem because it was still51200:27:37.799 --> 00:27:40.119



the law of the land. Now, if you had overturned51300:27:40.160 --> 00:27:43.039



it and you said no, and hey, no, makes sense.51400:27:43.119 --> 00:27:47.359



But to me, how could we defy the law because51500:27:47.400 --> 00:27:50.559



you didn't believe or didn't support the system, but you51600:27:50.599 --> 00:27:53.400



couldn't overturn it. But you still told us we couldn't51700:27:53.680 --> 00:27:54.119



try it.51800:27:54.559 --> 00:27:58.119



Okay, So I'm trying to understand your so he at51900:27:58.160 --> 00:28:00.680



the time it was still as North Urn.52000:28:00.799 --> 00:28:01.599



So that's right.52100:28:02.400 --> 00:28:04.960



But at the time they were instructing you, guys.52200:28:04.599 --> 00:28:06.440



Not absolutely.52300:28:06.759 --> 00:28:10.400



In fact, In fact, one of the key moments, George52400:28:10.680 --> 00:28:16.160



was I had to write a letter an email after52500:28:16.200 --> 00:28:19.519



what they told us at a meeting. So there are52600:28:19.559 --> 00:28:22.079



ten regents in the country. Our region is based out52700:28:22.119 --> 00:28:25.480



of Atlanta, and we'd have a meeting usually every week,52800:28:25.519 --> 00:28:27.839



and they told us on this meeting they've been hinting52900:28:27.920 --> 00:28:30.920



at this, hinting at this, that we were not going53000:28:30.960 --> 00:28:33.000



to be able to support we were no longer to53100:28:33.079 --> 00:28:35.839



be able to travel and support the people who were53200:28:35.880 --> 00:28:39.599



doing it enrollment events and promotional events to help people53300:28:39.680 --> 00:28:43.200



understand what had changed. Every year there was some changes53400:28:43.279 --> 00:28:47.680



in the law in terms of eligibility, in terms of53500:28:48.799 --> 00:28:53.000



who could help you know all of these factors, and53600:28:53.079 --> 00:28:57.359



so people who weren't eligible last year were eligible this year.53700:28:57.400 --> 00:29:00.200



And by the way, one thing everybody loved about it53800:29:00.039 --> 00:29:02.079



it was that you could keep kids on their health53900:29:02.079 --> 00:29:06.119



insurance up until a certain age. I can't remember now54000:29:06.160 --> 00:29:08.799



that so the people who are still in college could54100:29:08.799 --> 00:29:11.480



still be on their parents' health insurance. And that was54200:29:11.519 --> 00:29:14.640



something that was loved by both sides of the aisle, remember,54300:29:14.720 --> 00:29:15.720



So that's what they did.54400:29:15.920 --> 00:29:18.039



Yeah, I remember sixteen, then it went to eighteen, and54500:29:18.079 --> 00:29:20.240



then I think it went up to like twenty two.54600:29:21.119 --> 00:29:23.359



Yeah, twenty two or twenty three. Yeah, it was, yeah,54700:29:23.359 --> 00:29:25.880



it was. It was in the twenties, that was. It54800:29:25.920 --> 00:29:30.039



was in the twenties, and so everybody loved that basically.54900:29:30.119 --> 00:29:32.880



But so so they told us, for example, I would55000:29:32.920 --> 00:29:36.279



have a call in several of our markets. So for example,55100:29:36.319 --> 00:29:39.160



I'd have a call with the with the group out55200:29:39.160 --> 00:29:43.039



of Montgomery called Alabama Rise, and all of these sister55300:29:43.200 --> 00:29:45.799



communities in the whole state would be on that call.55400:29:46.319 --> 00:29:50.519



And along with me, I'd have the experts from CMS55500:29:50.960 --> 00:29:56.680



from PERSA, the Health ret Resources Services Agency. They fund55600:29:57.359 --> 00:30:00.599



and undergird the federally Qualified Health Centers at people don't55700:30:00.599 --> 00:30:03.400



know in America, forty percent of the primary health care55800:30:03.920 --> 00:30:08.160



provided in this country comes through the federally Qualified Health centers,55900:30:08.440 --> 00:30:12.240



and there's some in most communities, and people can go56000:30:12.359 --> 00:30:17.079



there even if they're unemployed or underemployed and get primary56100:30:17.079 --> 00:30:20.319



health care services based on a sliding ski. If you56200:30:20.559 --> 00:30:22.839



fee scale, if you make a little money, you pay56300:30:22.839 --> 00:30:23.359



a little money.56400:30:23.359 --> 00:30:24.640



If you don't make any money, you.56500:30:24.640 --> 00:30:29.559



Still get served and it helps not overwhelm the hospitals.56600:30:29.920 --> 00:30:31.920



So these people would be on the phone and if56700:30:31.920 --> 00:30:34.400



they ran into a problem, there was a glitch on56800:30:35.319 --> 00:30:39.200



a healthcare dot gov or something wasn't working, then my56900:30:39.359 --> 00:30:42.039



experts would be there with me and they'd hear it57000:30:42.119 --> 00:30:44.240



and they'd take it down and then the problems was57100:30:44.319 --> 00:30:46.480



we'd get back to the people with a fix or57200:30:46.559 --> 00:30:49.279



go back and fix it on our end. So there57300:30:49.400 --> 00:30:52.359



was that kind of communication, and we'd have that every week,57400:30:52.960 --> 00:30:55.680



because every week there was a different three theme this57500:30:55.799 --> 00:30:59.960



week or let's say this month maybe Latin American money57600:31:00.160 --> 00:31:03.359



next to me might bee lgbt Q plus month next57700:31:03.440 --> 00:31:07.160



May maybe UH focus on veterans of me, you know,57800:31:07.319 --> 00:31:10.559



focus on small businesses, and focus on African American.57900:31:11.400 --> 00:31:13.720



So all of these kind of different.58000:31:13.559 --> 00:31:18.200



UH the the UH the various like the aai P,58100:31:18.480 --> 00:31:25.119



the Native American and Asian American Pacific segment of the community,58200:31:25.160 --> 00:31:28.440



and so all that communication was stopped. In fact, I58300:31:28.480 --> 00:31:31.799



worked with the lady at CMS centers for Medicare and Medicaid,58400:31:31.839 --> 00:31:35.880



and they funded a lot of the they funded the navigators.58500:31:36.480 --> 00:31:39.920



And she told me because she wouldn't even they would58600:31:40.000 --> 00:31:42.400



send her stuff that we were supposed to send out58700:31:42.440 --> 00:31:45.200



to our partners, all of these partners, I tell you58800:31:45.240 --> 00:31:47.599



that will be on these calls. And she told me,58900:31:47.799 --> 00:31:50.359



I'm not sending anything out because I got two kids59000:31:50.400 --> 00:31:53.000



at home who like to eat. Now, I send it59100:31:53.000 --> 00:31:55.440



out anyway, because I said, if I'm going to get59200:31:55.440 --> 00:31:59.240



fired for obeying the law law the land, then I'm59300:31:59.319 --> 00:32:00.720



just gonna have to get fired.59400:32:01.480 --> 00:32:03.440



Almost got fired a few times.59500:32:03.160 --> 00:32:06.000



And everybody, everybody back then felt like they were working59600:32:06.079 --> 00:32:08.440



under threat threat of losing their.59700:32:08.839 --> 00:32:11.960



Absolutely absolutely so is a lot of the same things59800:32:12.000 --> 00:32:15.640



that are happening now, but this is on steroids. In fact,59900:32:15.720 --> 00:32:20.960



one time they told our CMS counterparts in Atlanta that60000:32:21.119 --> 00:32:24.359



run the regional office that supply work with all of60100:32:24.359 --> 00:32:28.319



these eight Southeastern states, and that would be nursing homes,60200:32:28.400 --> 00:32:32.759



that would be assisted living facilities, all of the hospitals60300:32:32.799 --> 00:32:35.440



come under their care, all of those any any of60400:32:35.480 --> 00:32:41.640



those entities, And they told somebody called her office run60500:32:41.680 --> 00:32:44.680



the Trump administration and told them to throw everything out60600:32:44.759 --> 00:32:48.119



that said had Obamacare on it. We were to destroy it,60700:32:48.319 --> 00:32:51.920



all of the materials that we passed out and used60800:32:51.920 --> 00:32:55.079



to help educate people and inform people. So what we60900:32:55.160 --> 00:32:57.799



had to do, George. We had to call everybody in61000:32:57.839 --> 00:33:01.480



the Metro Atlanta sister community and said if you meet61100:33:01.599 --> 00:33:05.640



us down here on the corner, because we'd rather give61200:33:05.680 --> 00:33:08.519



it to you and let you use it than to61300:33:08.680 --> 00:33:14.119



destroy it. And it was perfectly good, but they didn't61400:33:14.119 --> 00:33:16.079



want to have it. So those are the kind of61500:33:16.119 --> 00:33:20.640



things that in terms of that that we had to61600:33:20.680 --> 00:33:21.160



deal with.61700:33:21.559 --> 00:33:23.880



And I'll tell you this is interesting, George.61800:33:23.960 --> 00:33:29.799



The day the Healthcare DOCTUV website launched, the first, very61900:33:29.839 --> 00:33:37.079



first day of the Affordable Care Act was live, was62000:33:37.119 --> 00:33:41.000



the very same day that the government shut down, and62100:33:41.039 --> 00:33:44.240



so the website you probably don't remember this, but it62200:33:44.279 --> 00:33:47.559



was crashing left and right. It was just being overwhelmed62300:33:47.880 --> 00:33:51.240



and the Republicans were loving it because it was looking bad.62400:33:51.319 --> 00:33:53.799



It was terrible, and so of course.62500:33:53.599 --> 00:33:56.480



I was at the time had a designation that we62600:33:56.599 --> 00:33:58.000



still had to work everybody.62700:33:58.079 --> 00:33:59.759



Most of our employees were sent home.62800:34:00.079 --> 00:34:02.240



We had to work through it, and of course we62900:34:02.279 --> 00:34:05.720



couldn't tell our side of the story or the supportive63000:34:05.839 --> 00:34:08.079



side of the story, and so they were just getting63100:34:08.159 --> 00:34:11.679



lambassad But that was that was one of the crazy things.63200:34:11.719 --> 00:34:15.920



And another crazy thing, if we can go here was63300:34:16.079 --> 00:34:19.440



I think that he terribly mismanaged COVID.63400:34:21.960 --> 00:34:23.159



Uh you know what I mean, I mean.63500:34:23.119 --> 00:34:26.239



Go wherever you want. Yeah, I mean, I'm not one63600:34:26.280 --> 00:34:27.800



that will not talk about stuff.63700:34:27.960 --> 00:34:31.519



I mean, so I think that we when we really63800:34:31.559 --> 00:34:34.480



needed a statesman in the White House, we needed somebody63900:34:34.559 --> 00:34:37.440



like church Hill or FDR. Because you know, in the64000:34:37.559 --> 00:34:41.480



darkest of moments in this country, you need a statesman64100:34:41.519 --> 00:34:44.199



who will say, listen, we're in for a hell of64200:34:44.239 --> 00:34:47.880



a fight. This is going to be you know, we're64300:34:47.880 --> 00:34:50.000



going to lose a lot of people. We got to64400:34:50.000 --> 00:34:53.440



come together, there was one and deal with this. But64500:34:53.760 --> 00:34:57.119



you remember, he kept saying, well, it's just going to disappear.64600:34:57.239 --> 00:35:00.679



It's not that bad. You know, you can check bleach64700:35:00.800 --> 00:35:03.440



and you know, you can do all these kind of things.64800:35:03.440 --> 00:35:07.440



And so hundreds of thousands of people died that shouldn't64900:35:07.440 --> 00:35:15.880



have died because he wouldn't take COVID seriously. And of course,65000:35:15.920 --> 00:35:19.119



you know when he finally got COVID, you know, we65100:35:19.280 --> 00:35:21.440



know he had the very best of medicine and the65200:35:21.599 --> 00:35:24.280



very best of care as a president, and so, yeah,65300:35:24.320 --> 00:35:27.119



he's a president, and so I just thought he was65400:35:27.239 --> 00:35:32.840



extremely irresponsible. So so much of my book focuses on65500:35:32.920 --> 00:35:38.360



these communities, particularly the ones the least, the most vulnerable communities.65600:35:38.800 --> 00:35:42.559



In many instances, they were like the margareant workers who65700:35:42.679 --> 00:35:45.719



already you know, most of them, many times they lived65800:35:45.760 --> 00:35:48.719



in a you might have six or eight of them65900:35:48.760 --> 00:35:51.920



in a one or two bedroom apartment. You know, they'd66000:35:52.000 --> 00:35:55.280



ride to work together. So they had no protection, and66100:35:55.320 --> 00:35:57.239



they didn't A lot of them didn't have health care,66200:35:57.280 --> 00:36:00.039



They didn't have a place they could go, and so66300:36:00.159 --> 00:36:03.000



they were ravaged people that worked in these meat plants66400:36:03.119 --> 00:36:07.840



and these supermarkets. You know, they they just didn't but66500:36:07.960 --> 00:36:10.760



they had to be. They weren't like me because I66600:36:10.760 --> 00:36:12.360



got to where I could go home and work and66700:36:12.400 --> 00:36:14.559



sit in front of my computer like we're doing now.66800:36:14.599 --> 00:36:17.119



You know, they were the privileged people and they were66900:36:17.159 --> 00:36:20.960



the most vulnerable. And also the people that trusted him,67000:36:21.079 --> 00:36:23.400



who said that, well, this isn't real, this isn't going67100:36:23.480 --> 00:36:27.880



to happen. So I chronicled dozens of stories, some of67200:36:27.920 --> 00:36:31.960



them are best deathbed confessions because they people have said, well,67300:36:32.039 --> 00:36:33.679



you know, I didn't think this was real. I didn't67400:36:33.719 --> 00:36:36.000



think this was going to have could actually happen to me,67500:36:36.519 --> 00:36:39.960



And so I just thought he was very irresponsible in that.67600:36:40.119 --> 00:36:43.119



And and what we're going to have in the next67700:36:43.159 --> 00:36:45.239



couple of years, and I think it's going to start67800:36:45.239 --> 00:36:48.000



this year, George, because all of these people that have67900:36:48.119 --> 00:36:52.239



been fired at the CDC, all these people at the68000:36:52.360 --> 00:36:57.039



NIH who've been sent packing, and asif the organization that68100:36:57.920 --> 00:37:06.599



that of doctors, who who suggests what kind of vaccines68200:37:06.960 --> 00:37:11.000



are viable and safe? All of those people, twelve or68300:37:11.079 --> 00:37:14.239



thirteen have been replaced. He fired all them, and most68400:37:14.280 --> 00:37:16.639



have been replaced. We're talking about Robert Kenned. He had68500:37:16.679 --> 00:37:20.199



been replaced by all these vaccine skeptics. And so what68600:37:20.239 --> 00:37:23.239



I'm saying is you've seen we've had a resurgence of68700:37:23.679 --> 00:37:26.840



measles that's worse than thirty years we thought we had68800:37:26.840 --> 00:37:30.280



eradicated measles. That's just the beginning of it. Wait till68900:37:30.320 --> 00:37:33.920



the flu and covid comes back with a vengeance in69000:37:34.000 --> 00:37:38.039



the fall and you have nobody messaging against it and69100:37:38.119 --> 00:37:42.440



telling you to protect yourselves and the vaccines are safe.69200:37:42.480 --> 00:37:46.280



And that's an option, so it's gonna be interesting. And69300:37:46.320 --> 00:37:47.400



this is just year one.69400:37:47.719 --> 00:37:52.280



It is the thing with see Robert Kennedy, he's flip69500:37:52.320 --> 00:37:55.320



flopped a lot two on vaccines. You know, he was69600:37:55.360 --> 00:37:57.400



completely anti vACC and then he was like, well, no,69700:37:57.480 --> 00:38:00.320



I'm four vaccines that are proven. I just don't want69800:38:00.440 --> 00:38:06.840



unproven vaccines or untested which makes sense. And then, uh,69900:38:06.880 --> 00:38:09.599



the COVID vaccine was was a strange one because it70000:38:09.719 --> 00:38:13.000



was very rushed. Okay, and now I'm not an anti VAXX.70100:38:13.039 --> 00:38:15.880



If it works and it's proven, then yeah, give it70200:38:15.880 --> 00:38:19.599



to me. But the thing with the vaccine, and I70300:38:19.599 --> 00:38:20.880



know you know it's because you live through this and70400:38:20.920 --> 00:38:23.159



you're on the other side of it, but it was70500:38:23.239 --> 00:38:25.599



it was very unproven. It was rushed, and I'm gonna70600:38:25.599 --> 00:38:27.360



tell you right now, I know people who died from70700:38:27.400 --> 00:38:30.519



getting the vaccine. I know people in the military that70800:38:30.800 --> 00:38:32.719



took the Johnson and it was like it was like70900:38:32.760 --> 00:38:36.840



a hot shot. So yeah, there was problems with the vaccine.71000:38:36.920 --> 00:38:38.920



And now we have studies that are released to actually71100:38:38.960 --> 00:38:42.320



say well, now, if you get it, you are under71200:38:43.039 --> 00:38:47.719



a risk of myocardar myochi dieters. I can't even talk71300:38:47.760 --> 00:38:51.039



right now, but basically the enlarge heart syndrome right, which71400:38:51.079 --> 00:38:53.320



a lot of young people are getting. I do not71500:38:53.400 --> 00:38:55.159



know why I can't pronounce that word, was so strange,71600:38:55.480 --> 00:38:58.559



But anyway, so these things are true. And then Fizer71700:38:58.719 --> 00:39:01.440



just had a settle not in the US, but with71800:39:01.519 --> 00:39:05.559



multiple countries overseas due to the adverse effects that they71900:39:05.920 --> 00:39:09.639



completely denied. So, yeah, there were issues with the vaccine.72000:39:09.679 --> 00:39:13.800



But did the vaccine work in some cases? Sure, I72100:39:13.880 --> 00:39:16.280



just don't think it was thoroughly tested and that was72200:39:16.320 --> 00:39:19.599



what the apprehension was for most people. The problem, though,72300:39:19.880 --> 00:39:22.639



which is what I agree with you with, is that72400:39:22.800 --> 00:39:26.239



this did. This did stir up the whole anti vax72500:39:26.960 --> 00:39:30.000



movement in general, and now we're dismissing things that do work.72600:39:30.039 --> 00:39:32.079



Like you said, the measles vaccine. Well, I'm sorry, but72700:39:32.119 --> 00:39:34.800



that does work. You know, the flu vaccine works. There's72800:39:34.840 --> 00:39:37.079



things that do work but we can't get rid of.72900:39:37.159 --> 00:39:38.800



I mean, what do we want to do reintroduce polio73000:39:38.840 --> 00:39:40.599



because we don't want to take a vaccine. That's stupid,73100:39:40.960 --> 00:39:44.719



makes no sense. But I think the apprehension was like, hey,73200:39:44.800 --> 00:39:49.599



here's COVID. Never had it pandemic? I mean, happens every73300:39:49.639 --> 00:39:51.360



what every so many hundred a year. Last one was73400:39:51.360 --> 00:39:54.119



a Spanish flu, and then here we are, we don't73500:39:54.159 --> 00:39:55.760



have a solution. Then all of a sudden, it's like73600:39:56.199 --> 00:40:00.559



send it out. Okay, we could put some of that73700:40:00.599 --> 00:40:02.599



in the Trump administration for not vetting it, But at73800:40:02.599 --> 00:40:05.199



the same time, it was like the whole world needed something,73900:40:05.599 --> 00:40:07.679



and we can't deny that a lot of everything that74000:40:07.760 --> 00:40:10.039



was going on was also under the advisement of Fauci.74100:40:10.119 --> 00:40:12.760



I'm not gonna even not talk about that because that74200:40:12.840 --> 00:40:16.559



was a truth. But as the president, he could have74300:40:16.559 --> 00:40:19.159



put his foot down. So I don't really have an74400:40:19.159 --> 00:40:21.119



answer for that. You know, It's like there's it's a74500:40:21.119 --> 00:40:23.159



double edited sword here. It's like, on one hand you74600:40:23.159 --> 00:40:24.920



have some truth. On the other hand, like both things74700:40:24.920 --> 00:40:27.679



could be true at the same time, right, but both74800:40:27.679 --> 00:40:29.599



of them don't necessarily mean they were the right solution.74900:40:31.000 --> 00:40:32.400



It was not a good time for any way to75000:40:32.400 --> 00:40:34.920



live through. So you did have the people who caught75100:40:34.920 --> 00:40:39.519



it that they got the bad version of COVID, and yeah,75200:40:40.119 --> 00:40:43.519



people did die. I have a story on COVID because75300:40:43.639 --> 00:40:46.000



I'm I'm my business. I'm in the entertainmentdustry. I do75400:40:46.039 --> 00:40:49.880



I do a vent production okay, and we all got75500:40:49.920 --> 00:40:52.800



it before. We got it in twenty nineteen. Okay, we75600:40:52.840 --> 00:40:56.360



got it in about October, because I remember this. Everyone75700:40:56.440 --> 00:40:58.360



was getting sick. Everyone was like, hey, it's this weird75800:40:58.400 --> 00:41:00.639



flu going around, and everybody's flying in over so we're75900:41:00.639 --> 00:41:03.719



like doing like these conventions for like just throwing like76000:41:03.719 --> 00:41:06.360



Sam Sung, Sony whatever, and so they're flying people in76100:41:06.400 --> 00:41:09.079



from overseas, and then all of a sudden, these large76200:41:09.079 --> 00:41:12.239



conventions that are like they're scheduled out a year in advance,76300:41:12.239 --> 00:41:13.760



all of a sudden they're just dropping off. And was like,76400:41:13.840 --> 00:41:16.920



what's going on, And everybody's saying, well, there's this flu76500:41:17.000 --> 00:41:19.599



going around. Well I got it, and I got it,76600:41:19.679 --> 00:41:20.679



and I didn't know I had it. I thought it76700:41:20.760 --> 00:41:22.880



was a regular flu, and I worked through it on76800:41:23.079 --> 00:41:25.199



every damn medication you think you would take for cold76900:41:25.199 --> 00:41:28.719



from October through December. I had it for that long.77000:41:28.760 --> 00:41:31.119



I just couldn't shake it. And then all of a sudden,77100:41:31.400 --> 00:41:35.239



the announcement comes from January, well really around February, right,77200:41:35.519 --> 00:41:38.239



and they're like, oh, by the way, this is what's77300:41:38.280 --> 00:41:40.960



going on. It's a pandemic. We're like, what you know,77400:41:41.039 --> 00:41:43.159



we're already going through this and nobody knew it. But77500:41:43.199 --> 00:41:46.199



we're working so hard and busting, you know, working through77600:41:46.199 --> 00:41:48.800



it that we didn't we didn't even like register what77700:41:48.840 --> 00:41:54.079



it was or what was happening. Uh So once it hit, Yeah,77800:41:54.280 --> 00:41:56.400



I you know the way Trump handled his shirt, like,77900:41:57.840 --> 00:41:59.639



could he have put his foot down? Could he have78000:41:59.679 --> 00:42:02.440



been more apprehensive instead of just trying to say, hey,78100:42:02.480 --> 00:42:04.519



this is nothing. Everybody did think it was a flu78200:42:04.599 --> 00:42:06.639



back then, but at the same time, it was evident78300:42:06.679 --> 00:42:08.119



that it was more than a flu because the whole78400:42:08.119 --> 00:42:11.519



world was getting infected by this virus. So yeah, he78500:42:11.519 --> 00:42:13.519



could have definitely taken it a lot more serious at78600:42:13.519 --> 00:42:18.880



that particular time. And the speed of getting the vaccine out.78700:42:19.239 --> 00:42:22.000



We can argue whether that was necessary or not. I mean,78800:42:22.079 --> 00:42:25.360



but the reality is it wasn't vetted, it wasn't tested,78900:42:26.199 --> 00:42:28.960



and that's why people were apprehensive. That's why a lot79000:42:29.000 --> 00:42:32.639



of us were. But from my perspective, I'm not anti vacs.79100:42:32.840 --> 00:42:35.239



I'm not going to be that idiot. Right, there's vaccines79200:42:35.280 --> 00:42:37.920



that are proven that you just take. They work. When79300:42:37.960 --> 00:42:41.320



it came to Robert Kennedy, I get what he was79400:42:41.320 --> 00:42:43.599



coming from in terms of health because there are a79500:42:43.639 --> 00:42:46.679



lot of adverse health conditions or things that can happen79600:42:47.320 --> 00:42:50.800



from certain vaccines. I mean, the biggest part we have.79700:42:50.840 --> 00:42:52.480



I don't think it is really our vaccines are food,79800:42:52.599 --> 00:42:58.119



quite honest. But because of that, combined with what Robert79900:42:58.199 --> 00:43:00.760



Kennedy was saying in the beginning, is what led to80000:43:00.760 --> 00:43:04.800



this anti vaxx movement. It's a stupid thing, it really is.80100:43:05.440 --> 00:43:07.360



And things are happening. Like you said, all of a sudden,80200:43:07.559 --> 00:43:12.559



we have measles. You know what's next, Olio, Like these80300:43:12.559 --> 00:43:14.559



are things we shouldn't have. We have proven vaccines that80400:43:14.559 --> 00:43:16.440



can take care of it. So I'm in agreeance with you,80500:43:16.880 --> 00:43:19.880



But I also needed to, from my perspective, clarify a80600:43:19.920 --> 00:43:22.920



little bit of what happened during that period. And I80700:43:22.920 --> 00:43:24.920



mean we're not even to talk about health. We can80800:43:24.960 --> 00:43:27.800



even get into people who lost their businesses, lost their jobs,80900:43:27.800 --> 00:43:30.719



their livelihood. You know, the way the government acted even81000:43:30.760 --> 00:43:35.599



after Trump under Biden. So that whole time period was81100:43:36.239 --> 00:43:38.760



excuse the wording, but was a shit show for everybody81200:43:38.800 --> 00:43:43.079



on all aspects. It really was. But I think you're correct,81300:43:43.119 --> 00:43:46.679



and Trump could have been a lot more cautious about81400:43:46.679 --> 00:43:48.760



things in the beginning and taking a little bit more serious.81500:43:49.079 --> 00:43:51.079



I mean, I understand he didn't want to create panic,81600:43:51.199 --> 00:43:53.480



because that's when you're in the government, that's what you81700:43:53.519 --> 00:43:55.559



want to do, I think, right, but you don't want81800:43:55.559 --> 00:43:58.039



to create panic. If he was to say, hey, this81900:43:58.119 --> 00:44:01.400



is very serious, we all can possibly diet, et cetera,82000:44:01.519 --> 00:44:03.800



it would have been it would have been just instant,82100:44:04.239 --> 00:44:06.480



like forget about it, like we were just been upended.82200:44:07.239 --> 00:44:09.599



I would disagree. I would disagree because a lot of82300:44:09.800 --> 00:44:12.880



a million people died. Yeah, I've COVID, like I said,82400:44:14.079 --> 00:44:18.519



so it was very serious, and particularly for people who82500:44:18.519 --> 00:44:21.960



were highly vulnerable, and some of us had some protections,82600:44:22.079 --> 00:44:27.119



and so we I think they were sacrificed, honestly. And82700:44:27.280 --> 00:44:30.360



I think as a leader, your responsibility is to say,82800:44:30.519 --> 00:44:34.480



this is the real situation. We need to do ABC82900:44:34.679 --> 00:44:36.760



and D. And they say, I don't have all the answers,83000:44:36.760 --> 00:44:39.360



but I want everybody to know that this is serious.83100:44:39.519 --> 00:44:43.079



I just don't think that was there because and and83200:44:43.199 --> 00:44:47.760



you know, I understand people and their businesses, and so83300:44:48.000 --> 00:44:51.639



at some point we have to decide what's the most important.83400:44:51.679 --> 00:44:56.480



Is it saving lives or is it is it keeping83500:44:56.519 --> 00:44:59.360



businesses open? Or is there a balance that we have83600:44:59.480 --> 00:45:04.000



to seek that can preserve both, and there was a83700:45:04.119 --> 00:45:07.679



there were funding too, and and there's questions and you know,83800:45:07.760 --> 00:45:08.519



we can tell.83900:45:08.400 --> 00:45:10.599



That's that's a little bit of a different conversation. But84000:45:11.079 --> 00:45:13.199



I agree, I agree with what you said. You know,84100:45:13.280 --> 00:45:16.280



he could have been let's just say presidential, because he's84200:45:16.320 --> 00:45:19.559



not presidential. He he could have he could have done84300:45:19.559 --> 00:45:21.559



a lot better in his messaging.84400:45:23.239 --> 00:45:25.199



But you have to care, You have to care about84500:45:25.239 --> 00:45:27.880



people for that. Do you think he cares about people?84600:45:28.320 --> 00:45:30.440



It's hard to tell, you know, one one day he's84700:45:30.480 --> 00:45:32.719



the most carrying guy in the nexus, like, hey, you know,84800:45:32.840 --> 00:45:33.679



screw you.84900:45:33.679 --> 00:45:35.880



You know, I would love to see one of those85000:45:35.920 --> 00:45:38.840



instances where he's the most carrying guy, because I personally85100:45:38.920 --> 00:45:41.679



haven't seen that. And if you can, you can know,85200:45:41.840 --> 00:45:47.320



I know, really I don't see compassion in this man,85300:45:47.480 --> 00:45:48.719



and I could be wrong.85400:45:49.639 --> 00:45:53.159



Well we can only hope, uh that you're wrong, you know,85500:45:53.199 --> 00:45:56.599



because if he is really as an incompassionate, if he's85600:45:56.679 --> 00:45:59.840



if he's basically just some cold hearted lizard, that that85700:46:00.039 --> 00:46:02.360



could be a very bad thing in certain situations for sure,85800:46:02.719 --> 00:46:06.119



you know, And if if he becomes reactionary, especially what's85900:46:06.159 --> 00:46:10.000



going on in the geopolitical stage right now, uh, we86000:46:10.039 --> 00:46:13.400



can get into a whole lot of trouble, right, you know.86100:46:13.480 --> 00:46:16.280



And and right now he was trying to avoid wars.86200:46:16.440 --> 00:46:18.400



He's not we're not really in one, but we are,86300:46:18.480 --> 00:46:20.480



but we're not, like that's that's a whole different deal.86400:46:21.000 --> 00:46:23.119



But but two wars.86500:46:23.159 --> 00:46:26.960



Actually, yeah, well this is my wheelhouse. So we can86600:46:27.000 --> 00:46:29.599



go on with this for a long time. But let's86700:46:29.679 --> 00:46:33.119



let's let's let's both agree on this. I think in86800:46:33.159 --> 00:46:35.280



the beginning he didn't take it serious enough when kme cover,86900:46:35.840 --> 00:46:38.159



I agree with you, And I think the whole anti87000:46:38.280 --> 00:46:43.400



vaccine came from the apprehension of taking something that wasn't tested,87100:46:43.679 --> 00:46:46.119



is what it was. We can't deny we didn't need87200:46:46.199 --> 00:46:47.159



something though we did.87300:46:47.760 --> 00:46:51.960



But and it actually west tested, but they didn't have87400:46:52.960 --> 00:46:56.199



a year, right right, you know. And and I'll tell87500:46:56.239 --> 00:46:58.079



you this, George, you probably wouldn't know this. We have87600:46:58.199 --> 00:47:00.199



been preparing for a pandemic.87700:46:59.719 --> 00:47:03.800



For you years. It's always part of the of the plane.87800:47:03.880 --> 00:47:06.199



It's always part of Yeah.87900:47:05.599 --> 00:47:07.360



You do, but a lot of your listeners won't.88000:47:07.360 --> 00:47:10.000



Oh no, yeah, correct, Yeah, a lot of people don't88100:47:10.000 --> 00:47:13.639



realize that. Yeah, it was interesting, man, it was definitely interesting.88200:47:14.039 --> 00:47:14.199



You know.88300:47:14.239 --> 00:47:16.519



I can't imagine how it was working under the administration88400:47:16.599 --> 00:47:18.679



at that time. I mean, and especially God, Like I said,88500:47:18.719 --> 00:47:20.880



some guy who's I mean, you're used to You're used88600:47:20.920 --> 00:47:23.480



to very stately people, and then this person comes in.88700:47:23.559 --> 00:47:26.000



It's it's like, what are you doing?88800:47:26.480 --> 00:47:30.119



You'll appreciate this George Uh every morning, So I'm a88900:47:30.199 --> 00:47:32.960



late night person, I'm using that an early morning person.89000:47:33.199 --> 00:47:35.360



About four.89100:47:36.000 --> 00:47:40.079



Uh, this thing would go off and I subconsciously start89200:47:40.440 --> 00:47:44.760



groping for my phone on my nightstand to look to89300:47:44.800 --> 00:47:46.679



see what he's tweeted out that night.89400:47:46.760 --> 00:47:49.000



And I'm gonna have to react to the next day.89500:47:49.400 --> 00:47:50.000



You know what I'm saying.89600:47:50.840 --> 00:47:54.159



That was what he did, right, That was how he communicated. Yeah,89700:47:54.239 --> 00:47:56.840



and usually when you think about it, let's let's bring89800:47:56.920 --> 00:48:01.760



in the history has done that as a nobody nobody89900:48:01.800 --> 00:48:04.559



And guess what, I think he'll agree with this. Had90000:48:04.679 --> 00:48:08.760



had they been able to take his twitter, his phone,90100:48:09.119 --> 00:48:12.800



he would have had two consecutive presidencies because I mean,90200:48:12.840 --> 00:48:18.519



he created enough turmoil himself to lose narrowly that first time.90300:48:18.719 --> 00:48:21.559



You know, he would have had to, you know, because90400:48:21.559 --> 00:48:24.239



he shot himself in the foot, like in Georgia when90500:48:24.239 --> 00:48:27.800



he called up and said, I just need eleven thousand90600:48:27.920 --> 00:48:31.480



and how many votes? Yeah, so you know these these90700:48:31.840 --> 00:48:36.360



and the thing about Kennedy to me is he's not90800:48:36.480 --> 00:48:41.360



taking a medical course, has no medical degrees. And he90900:48:41.559 --> 00:48:47.320



told the Republican Senator Kennedy out of Louisiana that he91000:48:47.320 --> 00:48:51.199



would not dismantle this task force, and one of the91100:48:51.199 --> 00:48:53.519



first he just did it. A couple of weeks ago.91200:48:53.559 --> 00:48:56.360



He dismantled that task force. So he straight up lied91300:48:56.559 --> 00:48:59.280



about what he was going to do. And I don't know,91400:48:59.320 --> 00:49:02.679



we've never had that's somebody that had no medical pack background.91500:49:02.719 --> 00:49:04.440



I'm not saying that he doesn't know anything, and I91600:49:04.440 --> 00:49:09.280



don't I'm not saying that some of his beliefs don't91700:49:09.280 --> 00:49:12.760



have some truth to them. I think that, you know,91800:49:12.920 --> 00:49:16.800



everything doesn't have to be one hundred percent straight scientific91900:49:16.840 --> 00:49:17.880



and medical.92000:49:18.039 --> 00:49:20.960



But you can't be able to rely on people smarter92100:49:21.079 --> 00:49:24.039



than you, right, absolutely, Yeah, you know I'm with you92200:49:24.079 --> 00:49:26.079



on this. I mean, you've got to rely on your advisors.92300:49:26.079 --> 00:49:28.559



You can, you can have the ability to manage and supervise,92400:49:28.639 --> 00:49:30.079



but if you don't have people around to them know92500:49:30.119 --> 00:49:33.880



more than you there or are specialists that you refer92600:49:33.960 --> 00:49:37.400



to or defer to. What's the point, yes, it doesn't92700:49:37.440 --> 00:49:39.239



make any sense. You need to take all the information92800:49:39.480 --> 00:49:41.599



and you need to get it together. You need to92900:49:41.639 --> 00:49:44.280



go through it, extrapolate it, and go all right, based93000:49:44.280 --> 00:49:47.119



on everything's going on. Even using scientific method as you will,93100:49:47.800 --> 00:49:50.199



you can go based on the patterns and everything we're93200:49:50.199 --> 00:49:52.119



getting out of all these tests, this is the direction93300:49:52.199 --> 00:49:56.000



we need to go. It's but you can't wing it.93400:49:56.159 --> 00:49:56.719



You can't.93500:49:57.119 --> 00:49:59.199



It's like, I don't know if you remember this is93600:49:59.320 --> 00:50:01.960



about to it months ago, but the city of Milwaukee93700:50:02.039 --> 00:50:05.480



called the CDC because they were having this huge land93800:50:05.559 --> 00:50:08.360



outbreak in their school systems.93900:50:08.760 --> 00:50:09.800



They called the CDC.94000:50:10.559 --> 00:50:14.239



Okay, they called the CDC, and the CDC couldn't send94100:50:14.280 --> 00:50:17.719



anybody because he had come in and fired everybody that94200:50:17.800 --> 00:50:23.519



does lead remediations. So those are the kind of things.94300:50:23.880 --> 00:50:26.480



You know, our safety nets are just being ripped away94400:50:26.519 --> 00:50:29.000



from us, and there's gonna be a price to pay94500:50:29.280 --> 00:50:32.039



because in the end, we're still gonna have to end94600:50:32.119 --> 00:50:35.800



up paying for all these people who just yeah, but94700:50:36.480 --> 00:50:38.920



there's nothing preventative going on.94800:50:39.480 --> 00:50:41.440



And so those are some of the issues.94900:50:42.440 --> 00:50:44.679



And then it's like what was happening Dan is we're95000:50:44.679 --> 00:50:48.639



getting repeated now under his term they didn't learn the lesson.95100:50:48.559 --> 00:50:51.880



And on steroids because now he has a roadmap project95200:50:51.880 --> 00:50:54.639



twenty twenty five. Do you know that the guy that's95300:50:54.679 --> 00:50:56.760



over oh PM and I'm trying to remember his name,95400:50:56.800 --> 00:51:00.960



who's the principal architect of Project twenty twenty five wrote95500:51:01.000 --> 00:51:03.960



that every time a federal employee walked in the door,95600:51:04.079 --> 00:51:05.840



he wanted them to feel terror.95700:51:07.400 --> 00:51:10.920



Now what kind of human being says something like that.95800:51:11.199 --> 00:51:13.679



Yeah, I'm I'm familiar with Uh. I didn't read through95900:51:13.719 --> 00:51:15.599



the whole twenty twenty five, but when all this was96000:51:15.639 --> 00:51:18.400



going around, I looked into it and it's like, on96100:51:18.440 --> 00:51:20.840



the surface, the whole thing was it has this landing96200:51:20.880 --> 00:51:23.039



page like oh, we're training the future leaders, and then96300:51:23.039 --> 00:51:25.960



it was really a book or roadmap of how to96400:51:26.000 --> 00:51:31.280



turn everything conservative and keep power. And yeah, I don't96500:51:31.360 --> 00:51:33.159



I don't agree with the book or at tactics. I96600:51:33.159 --> 00:51:35.639



know J. D Vance just says that he the stones96700:51:35.760 --> 00:51:38.159



or doesn't doesn't support it. I don't know if there96800:51:38.199 --> 00:51:40.400



was an actual connection between what Trump's went in twenty96900:51:40.400 --> 00:51:42.719



twenty five, though they've never really made that connection.97000:51:43.639 --> 00:51:46.400



But I mean, I think I think you, I must97100:51:46.440 --> 00:51:49.039



suggest you go back and read it and you will97200:51:49.039 --> 00:51:52.280



see a clear connection, because I think that's a roadmap97300:51:52.320 --> 00:51:53.119



that they're following.97400:51:53.679 --> 00:51:55.079



It could be I'll look at it.97500:51:55.239 --> 00:51:55.480



You know.97600:51:55.519 --> 00:51:58.079



I'm not opposed to it, you know, I just don't97700:51:58.239 --> 00:52:01.039



think that they've ever made that connection. But at the97800:52:01.039 --> 00:52:03.519



same time, who knows, Man, you definitely could be correct.97900:52:03.559 --> 00:52:05.559



I I could look into that and see what's happening.98000:52:06.280 --> 00:52:09.519



So hey, it's all about learning things to get educated, right,98100:52:09.679 --> 00:52:10.840



I don't want to stay in the dark.98200:52:10.719 --> 00:52:12.519



Here, That's right, That's right.98300:52:12.639 --> 00:52:18.440



Yeah, Let's let's move on to what else you experienced.98400:52:18.559 --> 00:52:21.400



And you know, obviously everything everything that happened with the98500:52:21.440 --> 00:52:24.239



way they were handling health care, for example, which greatly98600:52:24.519 --> 00:52:26.519



impacted you because that's what you did. We're working for98700:52:26.679 --> 00:52:30.000



HHS and trying to help people through this time period98800:52:30.039 --> 00:52:34.800



this change. What about the and I'm bring this up98900:52:34.800 --> 00:52:36.920



because I did see it on some of your description99000:52:37.079 --> 00:52:40.400



and your about the book. What what was going on99100:52:40.480 --> 00:52:43.559



in terms of how you thought or how while a99200:52:43.559 --> 00:52:47.199



lot of people did that the Trump Trump himself maybe99300:52:47.199 --> 00:52:48.960



I don't know if it was the entire administration, they99400:52:48.960 --> 00:52:52.119



were actually believed to be racist or a lot of99500:52:52.119 --> 00:52:54.760



things they said were racist or came across that way.99600:52:55.519 --> 00:52:55.679



And.99700:52:57.159 --> 00:52:59.639



I see how because he has no damn filter, he99800:52:59.679 --> 00:53:03.000



doesn't ye And I can see how that was taken99900:53:03.119 --> 00:53:05.920



back then because look, there's a lot of times we're like,100000:53:06.599 --> 00:53:08.800



what did you say? And then now he's trying to100100:53:08.800 --> 00:53:11.920



turn the corner. But then I don't know. You can100200:53:11.960 --> 00:53:14.559



explain it better I think than I can. But because100300:53:14.559 --> 00:53:18.320



you've experienced it from your perspective, what did you what100400:53:18.440 --> 00:53:22.840



did you experience, what did you feel? And what did100500:53:22.840 --> 00:53:24.800



people tell you? More important, because I'm sure you got100600:53:24.840 --> 00:53:27.920



feedback from people that you worked with and what they100700:53:27.920 --> 00:53:29.679



heard and how things were happening and what they what100800:53:29.719 --> 00:53:30.800



they heard in the communities.100900:53:31.480 --> 00:53:33.880



Sure, yeah, I'll say this.101000:53:35.159 --> 00:53:40.280



You know, when the justice marches really grew in intensity101100:53:40.519 --> 00:53:49.039



after George Floyd's killing h Breonna Taylor arm Marbury, a101200:53:49.159 --> 00:53:53.639



much of largely unarmed black men and police stops, and101300:53:53.719 --> 00:53:58.159



particularly the public execution of George Floyd nine minutes and101400:53:58.199 --> 00:54:05.039



forty seven seconds captured broad daylight, which brought a broad101500:54:05.159 --> 00:54:10.079



range of Americans out into the streets. Well, for us,101600:54:10.199 --> 00:54:14.960



we had the only all black career staff, the four101700:54:15.000 --> 00:54:19.280



of us that worked for the appointee, and I've worked101800:54:19.280 --> 00:54:25.800



with three different appointees under the Trump administration, and he101900:54:27.280 --> 00:54:32.559



made that the Justice Marches be about patriotism in the flag.102000:54:32.719 --> 00:54:35.199



And it was not about patriotism in the flag. It102100:54:35.320 --> 00:54:39.519



was about the overpolicing of honor on black men. And102200:54:39.599 --> 00:54:43.159



so when like Kaepernick took a knee and that became102300:54:43.199 --> 00:54:46.079



a thing in the NFL, what did he say, Fire102400:54:46.119 --> 00:54:47.159



those sons of bitches?102500:54:47.239 --> 00:54:47.440



You know?102600:54:47.599 --> 00:54:50.480



He said, And he said when you arrested people, he102700:54:50.639 --> 00:54:54.519



wanted them to be treated roughly. And so that's why102800:54:54.719 --> 00:54:59.119



I questioned his humanity. I don't know if you know102900:54:59.239 --> 00:55:02.719



that back in to day his family has been charged103000:55:03.519 --> 00:55:09.360



numerous times for discrimination in housing in some of their103100:55:09.400 --> 00:55:14.800



properties in terms of how they you know, discriminated against103200:55:14.920 --> 00:55:18.239



against black people. I think he and so for us,103300:55:18.559 --> 00:55:22.320



for me, some of the things I saw, I could103400:55:22.360 --> 00:55:24.159



not help. But I had a job to do and103500:55:24.199 --> 00:55:25.960



I did it. I did it well, but I could103600:55:26.039 --> 00:55:29.079



not help but take some of that. Personally, I think103700:55:29.119 --> 00:55:32.039



he's the most divisive president that we've had in the103800:55:32.039 --> 00:55:37.440



modern era. Latinos were rapists in THEEVESE and the China103900:55:37.519 --> 00:55:42.960



virus and the this thing against the squad and the104000:55:43.000 --> 00:55:45.920



black the black led black black bron cities.104100:55:45.960 --> 00:55:48.239



He was very, very divisive.104200:55:48.800 --> 00:55:51.800



I don't remember anything that he did or said that104300:55:52.000 --> 00:55:56.519



was unifying. And he was he was people want to104400:55:56.519 --> 00:55:59.280



say stupid. I think he's brilliant in what he does.104500:55:59.360 --> 00:56:04.920



He's he's magnificent in being divisive and othering, making people104600:56:05.719 --> 00:56:09.519



see the other as the enemy, somebody else's enemy. And104700:56:09.599 --> 00:56:11.599



so for us, for example, one of the job of104800:56:11.760 --> 00:56:17.159



responsibilities we had was to try and locate and vet104900:56:17.679 --> 00:56:22.039



places that were willing to house these unaccompanied children in105000:56:22.079 --> 00:56:26.159



these camps from people that were separated from their families105100:56:26.199 --> 00:56:28.880



at the border. And I can see both sides of105200:56:28.920 --> 00:56:32.039



the immigration issue, I really can. I do think there105300:56:32.079 --> 00:56:36.639



needs to be a process and a procedure, but I105400:56:36.679 --> 00:56:40.519



also think that we can treat people as human beings.105500:56:40.800 --> 00:56:42.719



And I think that people who want to come here105600:56:43.000 --> 00:56:46.679



ninety plus percent of them, probably ninety five percent of them,105700:56:46.800 --> 00:56:50.199



only want to work hard, live a free life, and105800:56:50.280 --> 00:56:53.320



make some money they can send home to their families.105900:56:53.320 --> 00:56:56.480



That's most people. And so we're rounding up them up106000:56:56.519 --> 00:57:00.400



in the they're running in the fields away from police now,106100:57:00.440 --> 00:57:03.440



and they're just they're at parks and they're you know,106200:57:03.599 --> 00:57:08.079



at landromats, working in car washes and they're getting rounded up.106300:57:08.079 --> 00:57:10.199



And most of these people and they don't get a106400:57:10.199 --> 00:57:12.840



lot of the benefits, but they still have to pay taxes.106500:57:13.199 --> 00:57:16.920



So for me, when I saw the treatment of some106600:57:16.960 --> 00:57:22.079



of these people, it reminded me too much of slavery.106700:57:22.159 --> 00:57:24.599



It reminded me too much of the Jim.106800:57:24.400 --> 00:57:29.280



Crow era where people were mistreated because they look differently.106900:57:29.360 --> 00:57:33.840



And to me, what makes America great is the diversity107000:57:33.880 --> 00:57:36.920



that we have. And it really is a multi melting pot.107100:57:37.000 --> 00:57:40.000



And I'll tell you this, George. I think a lot107200:57:40.039 --> 00:57:41.719



of white America and not a lot of it, not107300:57:41.800 --> 00:57:44.440



most of it by any means, maybe a third of107400:57:44.480 --> 00:57:48.559



it is really concerned because this is becoming a minority107500:57:48.639 --> 00:57:52.880



majority country and supposedly right around twenty forty two ish107600:57:53.400 --> 00:57:55.840



it's going to be that. And I think that for107700:57:55.960 --> 00:58:02.239



some people who live in these monogamous, these homogeneouses, they107800:58:02.280 --> 00:58:05.280



live in a society that's all white or all black107900:58:05.400 --> 00:58:08.880



or all you don't ever have an interaction with other people,108000:58:08.880 --> 00:58:12.719



and it's easy to demonize him and make them out108100:58:12.800 --> 00:58:15.000



to be the boogeyman and the bad guy. And I108200:58:15.039 --> 00:58:18.159



think that there is this element of white America that108300:58:18.400 --> 00:58:24.239



is afraid that they will be treated like other people108400:58:24.559 --> 00:58:27.880



have been treated in the last you know, one hundred108500:58:27.880 --> 00:58:32.039



and fifty two hundred, four hundred years. And so there's108600:58:32.079 --> 00:58:37.119



that fear and nobody wants to share power or share108700:58:38.360 --> 00:58:42.880



you know, control. But that's the country where we're moving108800:58:42.920 --> 00:58:43.880



towards rapidly.108900:58:45.440 --> 00:58:49.840



Gotcha, Well, there is a there is a there is109000:58:49.840 --> 00:58:53.039



a power dynamic. There's going to be a shift. But109100:58:53.119 --> 00:58:55.760



I don't think it's kind of come from the black109200:58:55.800 --> 00:58:58.039



community or the Latino community. Is going to be coming109300:58:58.079 --> 00:59:00.599



from those from the Middle East that are coming into109400:59:00.639 --> 00:59:06.039



the United States. Just look at statistics. They're birthing at109500:59:06.119 --> 00:59:08.440



a rate that it was two to five times more109600:59:08.480 --> 00:59:09.719



than any other culture or.109700:59:09.760 --> 00:59:14.360



Race period, really more than Oh yes they are. So109800:59:14.960 --> 00:59:17.599



I'm learning to see we got all big will.109900:59:17.760 --> 00:59:20.599



Yeah, if anything, it's gonna come from from that side.110000:59:20.639 --> 00:59:23.239



But you know, what you said earlier is very correct.110100:59:23.239 --> 00:59:26.760



If you're if you're living in a community that is110200:59:27.159 --> 00:59:30.760



all white, all brown, you're not doing yourself a service110300:59:30.800 --> 00:59:34.000



because you're not you're not really connecting with other cultures110400:59:34.000 --> 00:59:35.440



and other communities whatsoever.110500:59:36.119 --> 00:59:36.320



You know.110600:59:36.400 --> 00:59:39.559



I I've always had a different take because you know,110700:59:39.760 --> 00:59:44.039



white there you go. But you know, when I grew up,110800:59:44.079 --> 00:59:46.239



I I was a minority. So the schools I went to,110900:59:46.639 --> 00:59:49.039



I was around all the gangs, all the Mexican gangs.111000:59:49.360 --> 00:59:51.400



My friends were black, they were brown. I didn't have111100:59:51.440 --> 00:59:54.039



a lot of white people around me. I was the111200:59:54.119 --> 00:59:56.119



one in fights every day. I was the one getting jumped.111300:59:56.199 --> 00:59:57.719



I was the one going through all that stuff. But111400:59:57.719 --> 00:59:59.960



it didn't make me hate anybody. You know, my friends111501:00:00.000 --> 01:00:02.480



we're all Indian, they're all they're all people from Mexico.111601:00:02.719 --> 01:00:05.360



I have black friends, Like, it doesn't really matter to111701:00:05.400 --> 01:00:07.119



me your skin color. But I also think that's a111801:00:07.159 --> 01:00:08.599



lot that has to do with a lot of the111901:00:08.679 --> 01:00:10.840



gen X, the way they grew up, the way I112001:00:10.880 --> 01:00:15.119



grew up. Our generation didn't care. We we we were112101:00:15.199 --> 01:00:19.639



all thrown together because at that time we interacted with everybody.112201:00:19.679 --> 01:00:21.840



We didn't we we didn't we didn't grow up to112301:00:21.960 --> 01:00:24.559



think that we should treat anyone else differently because of112401:00:24.599 --> 01:00:28.039



how you looked. But somehow we got back to that112501:00:28.719 --> 01:00:31.360



now and I don't understand why or how that happened.112601:00:31.639 --> 01:00:34.599



Well, I think it's very comp fosters that kind of112701:00:36.079 --> 01:00:39.960



belief and kind of again, there's it's fear mongering. It's112801:00:40.039 --> 01:00:45.400



like with the Willie Lynt back during the President Reagan era.112901:00:45.639 --> 01:00:49.039



You know, you you can you can demonize people, and113001:00:49.079 --> 01:00:52.400



you can put fear in people. There's this element anyway,113101:00:52.480 --> 01:00:55.000



and especially one of the things about you and and113201:00:55.199 --> 01:00:57.840



and as you grew up, George, you'll you'll say this,113301:00:57.840 --> 01:01:01.239



It is true. I'm sure because you spent time with113401:01:01.280 --> 01:01:02.559



all these different kind of people.113501:01:02.679 --> 01:01:04.079



You all saw each other's people.113601:01:04.159 --> 01:01:06.719



You I mean, you all pretty much basically all wanted113701:01:06.760 --> 01:01:10.039



the same thing. And you see the humanity and other people.113801:01:10.079 --> 01:01:12.639



But if you don't know them, it's easy for somebody113901:01:12.679 --> 01:01:15.400



to paint them a different way. And one of the114001:01:15.440 --> 01:01:20.800



things that became normalized during the Trump administration was do114101:01:20.840 --> 01:01:28.480



you remember Mikelly and conwell way she talked about alternative facts. Now,114201:01:28.519 --> 01:01:32.199



things are true or they're not true, but you know so,114301:01:33.119 --> 01:01:35.159



but that that was you know what I'm saying, Come on,114401:01:35.239 --> 01:01:36.920



what the hell is an alternative?114501:01:38.159 --> 01:01:39.679



I agree with you, that doesn't make me sense.114601:01:40.000 --> 01:01:43.519



And so yeah, so so I'm saying now you almost114701:01:43.639 --> 01:01:45.559



don't know who or what to believe.114801:01:45.679 --> 01:01:46.599



And think about it.114901:01:46.639 --> 01:01:50.400



Back during the Spanish Flu just over one hundred years ago,115001:01:50.480 --> 01:01:53.719



now one hundred and five years ago, you could see115101:01:53.719 --> 01:01:56.639



pictures in New York and big cities where people were115201:01:56.679 --> 01:02:01.800



lined up for miles to get that because they believe115301:02:01.920 --> 01:02:05.519



their government and they trusted Who do we trust Now?115401:02:05.880 --> 01:02:08.760



I'm saying we got the where you don't trust anybody,115501:02:08.840 --> 01:02:12.280



and that's a scary thing to be. And so what115601:02:12.320 --> 01:02:17.920



we found historically, George, is that great societies usually aren't115701:02:17.960 --> 01:02:21.800



destroyed from without, it's from within. And I can see115801:02:21.800 --> 01:02:25.079



you can see us headed that way.115901:02:25.360 --> 01:02:28.719



Yeah, they killed themselves. Same thing with the Greeks, you116001:02:28.760 --> 01:02:32.960



know it was it wasn't outside influence. Yes, the uh.116101:02:33.360 --> 01:02:36.199



The thing that's crazy to me about racism, this is116201:02:36.239 --> 01:02:38.360



what I hate is you see it all the time.116301:02:38.639 --> 01:02:41.320



You can get two babies, you can film them different116401:02:41.320 --> 01:02:44.280



skin colors. They're babies. They will play and interact, they116501:02:44.280 --> 01:02:44.920



don't even care.116601:02:45.119 --> 01:02:46.760



Yeah, absolutely, it's.116701:02:46.639 --> 01:02:49.280



The influence as they grow up that makes them that way.116801:02:49.320 --> 01:02:52.360



And it's sad that as humans that that even still exists,116901:02:52.400 --> 01:02:55.599



that we would even have these biases and and and117001:02:55.639 --> 01:02:59.280



inflect into a young mind that you're supposed to look117101:02:59.320 --> 01:03:01.679



at this other person and different. But I can understand117201:03:01.679 --> 01:03:04.840



it too, because if you're if you're unfortunate to be117301:03:05.440 --> 01:03:08.679



of the race where you're always getting beaten and looked117401:03:08.719 --> 01:03:11.119



down on your whole life, and throughout generations, it kind117501:03:11.159 --> 01:03:13.760



of does carry over. You have that distrust. So it's117601:03:13.800 --> 01:03:16.000



like trying to fix that. I don't even know how,117701:03:16.079 --> 01:03:18.159



but it's it's just as a There's a topic that117801:03:18.599 --> 01:03:23.119



I discussed with another person a few months back, and117901:03:23.159 --> 01:03:25.320



we went down this whole road and we were just118001:03:25.559 --> 01:03:28.239



scratching our heads as like why can't why can't we118101:03:28.280 --> 01:03:32.800



get rid of this way of thought? Like why it118201:03:32.960 --> 01:03:35.039



just it would be so much better if we just118301:03:35.400 --> 01:03:39.000



looked at people as people, period. And I'm really just118401:03:39.119 --> 01:03:40.880



tired of you know, when I just when I think118501:03:40.880 --> 01:03:43.159



things are settled, I open up, you know, acts for118601:03:43.239 --> 01:03:45.679



the news is like headline you know, another racial like118701:03:45.840 --> 01:03:48.760



come on, or are we still doing this? It's it's118801:03:48.760 --> 01:03:51.559



so stupid. Are we not past that? It doesn't make118901:03:51.599 --> 01:03:52.119



any sense to me?119001:03:53.599 --> 01:03:55.760



I'd like to ask something to you that you would119101:03:55.800 --> 01:04:00.119



have better insight than me, maybe, And that is there119201:04:00.199 --> 01:04:03.400



seems to be this singer syndrome of this angry young119301:04:03.400 --> 01:04:03.880



white man.119401:04:04.440 --> 01:04:05.400



Yeah you know what I mean.119501:04:05.559 --> 01:04:11.599



And and I think that it's like, for example, black119601:04:11.599 --> 01:04:14.719



people in this country, and I'm talking in broad terms,119701:04:14.840 --> 01:04:19.199



but have been uncomfortable for kind of forever in a119801:04:19.239 --> 01:04:21.639



lot of ways. You know, nobody comes over this country119901:04:22.199 --> 01:04:24.719



to be like a black American.120001:04:24.800 --> 01:04:25.079



We're not.120101:04:25.320 --> 01:04:29.119



We're only the model if it's athletics or entertainment in120201:04:29.159 --> 01:04:32.079



some instances, but nobody cut that's not the goal. But120301:04:32.800 --> 01:04:36.880



I'm saying, but yeah, so now though, when things might120401:04:36.920 --> 01:04:40.760



get a little tough for young white men who basically120501:04:40.920 --> 01:04:44.119



have been at the top of the pecking order for120601:04:45.559 --> 01:04:48.599



you know, ever since Custer Road out west.120701:04:48.920 --> 01:04:50.559



You know, it's it's, it's it.120801:04:51.119 --> 01:04:54.800



And then I think you see that raige being exposed120901:04:55.039 --> 01:04:59.039



in some of these incidents that we have, And I121001:04:59.159 --> 01:05:03.000



just wondered if you any thoughts about that, because it's it's.121101:05:02.639 --> 01:05:05.639



I kind of well, I do, and I don't because121201:05:05.679 --> 01:05:08.159



I'm not necessarily young anymore. I guess I'm in that121301:05:08.239 --> 01:05:11.519



mid mid part right right. But I could see the121401:05:11.559 --> 01:05:13.880



frustration from both sides. I mean, the same thing that121501:05:14.039 --> 01:05:17.639



frustrated the black men for being, you know, held back.121601:05:18.199 --> 01:05:20.880



You know, think about the time when you know, black121701:05:20.920 --> 01:05:22.840



men were very successful. There was a time they were121801:05:22.880 --> 01:05:25.159



able to do whatever they wanted to do. And make money,121901:05:25.480 --> 01:05:27.880



and then the mortgage companies were redlining them, so you122001:05:27.880 --> 01:05:30.039



couldn't even buy a house, you know, or you couldn't122101:05:30.039 --> 01:05:32.920



get in a certain district or in a certain area,122201:05:33.119 --> 01:05:36.280



you know. So I think the frustrations are are shifting.122301:05:36.320 --> 01:05:38.639



Now it's not as bad for white people. But I122401:05:38.679 --> 01:05:43.280



think what happened, and what you're saying is that I122501:05:43.320 --> 01:05:47.800



think the newer generations, they weren't brought up under that. Okay,122601:05:47.840 --> 01:05:50.239



they're just being exposed to what they're told is going122701:05:50.239 --> 01:05:53.679



on or what happened, and I think there's an older122801:05:53.719 --> 01:05:57.199



generation that will not let it go and all of122901:05:57.239 --> 01:06:00.000



these these these these feelings and everything just getting drug123001:06:00.400 --> 01:06:02.239



and they don't know how to deal with it. And123101:06:02.320 --> 01:06:07.159



so it's I think that possibly not speaking for everybody,123201:06:08.239 --> 01:06:10.119



possibly some of the some of the younger white men,123301:06:10.119 --> 01:06:13.480



as you're saying, maybe they do feel frustrated because they're123401:06:13.480 --> 01:06:15.400



trying to do the right thing, but every time they do,123501:06:15.519 --> 01:06:18.119



they're being reprimanded for not doing the right thing the123601:06:18.280 --> 01:06:22.599



right way, and and there's no place for them, they feel,123701:06:23.119 --> 01:06:26.360



you know. But then that's also the sentiment for anybody123801:06:26.360 --> 01:06:29.599



of any color economically right now, you know, you can't123901:06:29.599 --> 01:06:31.679



afford to buy a home no matter who you are.124001:06:32.199 --> 01:06:34.920



But when when it comes to the racial argument of124101:06:34.920 --> 01:06:37.280



what we're talking about in terms of race, I think124201:06:37.360 --> 01:06:39.559



I think what it is, they just they just feel124301:06:39.599 --> 01:06:43.760



that there's nothing they can do that'll be right. Okay,124401:06:44.360 --> 01:06:46.440



if if if you want to confront a person of124501:06:46.480 --> 01:06:48.880



color about something, if they have a let's let's just124601:06:48.880 --> 01:06:50.280



be on. I don't care what color. If you're doing124701:06:50.280 --> 01:06:52.880



something stupid, why can't you be corrected? Why can't you124801:06:52.880 --> 01:06:56.239



just say hey, you know what? And and I don't124901:06:56.239 --> 01:06:59.119



think a white, young white kid can do that. They125001:06:59.159 --> 01:07:02.199



if they see a black or a brown person or whoever,125101:07:02.320 --> 01:07:04.679



did you see a mexicanos like, well, ma, way guy,125201:07:04.800 --> 01:07:06.440



I don't know if I could actually comfortably go over125301:07:06.440 --> 01:07:08.559



there and you know, say something, because all of a125401:07:08.559 --> 01:07:10.639



sudden it's like, oh, you're being a racist? What are125501:07:10.639 --> 01:07:13.440



you doing? And that's what's been going on. So I125601:07:13.440 --> 01:07:14.000



can see.125701:07:14.599 --> 01:07:19.599



And I think that's I think that's partly a generational thing, George.125801:07:19.679 --> 01:07:22.519



And what I mean by that example, like say, if125901:07:22.559 --> 01:07:25.800



I'm riding downtown to an event or something on the126001:07:25.800 --> 01:07:29.400



bus and if I see these young guys and they're126101:07:29.480 --> 01:07:33.320



usually black, guys in where I live in Atlanta, you know,126201:07:33.360 --> 01:07:37.199



one of the black cultural mecas, and they're you know,126301:07:37.519 --> 01:07:39.960



pants are halfway down their butt and they're cutting. And126401:07:40.360 --> 01:07:43.199



I'm there with my wife or my daughter. I wanted126501:07:44.039 --> 01:07:48.280



to ask them to can you have some respect? But126601:07:48.480 --> 01:07:51.239



you know, I might get shot or cut, you know,126701:07:51.280 --> 01:07:56.880



and so I where As thirty years ago they say126801:07:56.800 --> 01:07:58.960



it is there my bad too and so, but today126901:07:59.039 --> 01:08:01.639



I may get cussed out or jumped on or anything.127001:08:01.719 --> 01:08:05.599



So yeah, I mean, you're right, that's the society that127101:08:05.639 --> 01:08:06.679



we have devolved to.127201:08:06.840 --> 01:08:10.119



Unfortunately. But well, I will say, and I'll ask you this.127301:08:12.159 --> 01:08:15.840



I haven't seen It does happen every once in a while,127401:08:15.880 --> 01:08:19.439



but you don't usually see young black guys going into127501:08:19.720 --> 01:08:25.840



grocery stores killing twelve people in the churches, in the kmarts,127601:08:26.199 --> 01:08:29.680



into these places that's into synagogues.127701:08:30.159 --> 01:08:31.960



That's what I'm talking about.127801:08:32.319 --> 01:08:35.039



That whereas you know, I'm not happy, and and hell127901:08:35.119 --> 01:08:38.000



I'm gonna you're gonna you're not gonna be happy either.128001:08:38.079 --> 01:08:39.720



That's a yeah.128101:08:39.600 --> 01:08:43.880



I can address that a bit. First off, we already128201:08:43.880 --> 01:08:51.199



know white people are crazy, so whatever. But no, I128301:08:52.159 --> 01:08:53.760



don't know if this is true in the black community.128401:08:54.479 --> 01:08:57.079



But with white people, let's just be honest, they're hooked128501:08:57.119 --> 01:09:01.760



on pills. Period. I think think pharmaceuticals is the issue.128601:09:02.279 --> 01:09:06.640



You for saying that, because that's that's relevatory to me.128701:09:07.359 --> 01:09:10.680



Every kid, most any white family. You go to a128801:09:10.720 --> 01:09:14.359



doctor if they have if they're not interested in what128901:09:14.399 --> 01:09:16.039



you're showing them, or they're not doing some a certain129001:09:16.039 --> 01:09:18.039



way right now, they all of a sudden they got ADHD,129101:09:18.039 --> 01:09:19.960



they have something else. They want to put them on129201:09:20.000 --> 01:09:22.199



a pill. Then that that pill has another effect, and129301:09:22.239 --> 01:09:23.960



they want to put them on another one. I think129401:09:23.960 --> 01:09:29.800



we're in this, this this very strange cycle, a perpetual129501:09:30.319 --> 01:09:33.399



manipulation of the chemistry of your brain. To be honest,129601:09:33.960 --> 01:09:36.640



and this this goes way. I mean, this goes back129701:09:37.520 --> 01:09:39.239



a long time. And I'm sure you know this. You129801:09:39.319 --> 01:09:41.600



probably already know this. You're just letting me talk. But129901:09:41.960 --> 01:09:44.760



the reality is, I think that's what's going on when130001:09:44.720 --> 01:09:46.239



you when you're talking about like, why is it always130101:09:46.239 --> 01:09:49.199



the white person these young white kids. I think they're130201:09:49.239 --> 01:09:51.960



just medicated. They're so medicaid and their brains are just130301:09:52.000 --> 01:09:55.479



so rewired from being all these medications. I don't recall130401:09:55.520 --> 01:10:00.359



personally from the black friends I have. They traditionally aren't130501:10:00.399 --> 01:10:03.920



really about medicating with pills. From my record, like, I130601:10:03.960 --> 01:10:05.800



don't know if I'm right on that, but I never130701:10:05.880 --> 01:10:07.960



saw a bunch of bottles like if it was diabetes130801:10:08.039 --> 01:10:10.079



or maybe a heart pill. But it wasn't like, hey,130901:10:10.119 --> 01:10:11.760



you need to take this for your attention deficit or131001:10:11.760 --> 01:10:13.640



you need to take that. I didn't really see that,131101:10:15.039 --> 01:10:16.840



And I'm not sure if I'm correct. I mean, maybe131201:10:16.880 --> 01:10:18.640



you can tell me, but I think it was more131301:10:18.760 --> 01:10:20.960



on the white side that they were just like, oh, yeah,131401:10:20.960 --> 01:10:22.800



I give me that pill, I need this. Oh my131501:10:22.840 --> 01:10:25.520



son is crazy. He just he won't sit still, he131601:10:25.560 --> 01:10:27.279



won't read the book. He doesn't want to do math. Well,131701:10:27.319 --> 01:10:29.520



who wants to do math? Like come on, you know?131801:10:29.960 --> 01:10:31.600



But I think that was part of it. I think131901:10:31.600 --> 01:10:33.520



that's a big part of it. And then you combine132001:10:33.560 --> 01:10:35.760



that with what we were talking about earlier to where132101:10:35.920 --> 01:10:38.479



they're feeling like where's my place. I can't be a132201:10:38.479 --> 01:10:43.039



white man anymore. I'm feminized, right, I can't. I can't132301:10:43.039 --> 01:10:44.840



be a man. I have to act this way. I132401:10:44.880 --> 01:10:47.399



have to be a feminized person. I'm not talking about transfer,132501:10:47.479 --> 01:10:51.319



just saying like how you act, and it's I think132601:10:51.359 --> 01:10:53.399



all of that just comes to a head. It really does.132701:10:53.439 --> 01:10:54.800



And I think that's why you see more like the132801:10:54.840 --> 01:10:58.399



white kids going crazy. It's it's a combination of the pharmaceuticals.132901:10:58.600 --> 01:11:01.479



They're over medicated, they don't don't know their place, They133001:11:01.520 --> 01:11:03.840



got to be super careful on how they interact with everybody.133101:11:03.880 --> 01:11:06.640



They don't have anywhere to turn, and then boom, you know,133201:11:07.000 --> 01:11:09.439



fu was ignites and then they just blow up. So133301:11:11.119 --> 01:11:15.239



it's not always just specific to white kids. But we133401:11:15.479 --> 01:11:17.680



got admit, I mean the majority, yeah, I mean that's133501:11:17.680 --> 01:11:20.560



what's been happening. But we just we just had, you know,133601:11:20.600 --> 01:11:22.159



a group of Middal Easterns to go ahead and shoot133701:11:22.199 --> 01:11:26.640



up a Christians Christian church. We just had a guy133801:11:26.640 --> 01:11:29.760



from Iran try to burn Jewish people in Colorado. You know,133901:11:30.840 --> 01:11:34.000



there's crazy everywhere. But what you're talking about with the schools, yeah,134001:11:34.000 --> 01:11:36.279



you're right. I mean, you can't deny that it's always134101:11:36.279 --> 01:11:39.359



a white kid with a gun. Why. I think a134201:11:39.359 --> 01:11:40.800



lot of it has to do with what I said,134301:11:41.319 --> 01:11:44.760



I really do you know, the white child, the white134401:11:44.880 --> 01:11:48.399



kid going back. I think it's all the pill stuff134501:11:48.399 --> 01:11:50.920



I started later in my generation. I think it just134601:11:51.000 --> 01:11:55.279



came down to just being in this cycle of we134701:11:55.319 --> 01:11:59.479



need to medicate them. We can't deal with this kid. No,134801:11:59.479 --> 01:12:02.000



nobody really did long term studies of the side effects,134901:12:02.000 --> 01:12:03.520



and now that they know them, they don't really want135001:12:03.520 --> 01:12:05.600



to back off because now the pharmaceutical industry is making135101:12:05.600 --> 01:12:07.079



too much money on it that I could stop it.135201:12:07.600 --> 01:12:11.279



I I had, I had another guy on here that135301:12:11.479 --> 01:12:14.520



was a DEA agent, and we actually had a discussion135401:12:14.520 --> 01:12:18.039



about this, and he echoed everything I said and more. Uh,135501:12:18.119 --> 01:12:20.840



everything started with a big pharma and and we actually135601:12:20.840 --> 01:12:22.720



had some of the same discussion, you know, in terms135701:12:22.760 --> 01:12:24.560



of what you just asked me, and he believed the135801:12:24.560 --> 01:12:27.199



same thing. He's like, it's it's medication, you know, it135901:12:27.239 --> 01:12:29.079



really is. He said, if you look at the if136001:12:29.119 --> 01:12:34.439



you look at the statistics of when certain diagnoses of136101:12:34.600 --> 01:12:38.880



conditions came out, it all started way back when the136201:12:38.880 --> 01:12:42.520



pharmaceutical industry took hold. You know, it's all started during136301:12:42.600 --> 01:12:46.960



during the opioid epidemic and ever since then. Sorry, white136401:12:47.000 --> 01:12:47.520



kids are crazy.136501:12:47.600 --> 01:12:48.199



It just happened.136601:12:48.640 --> 01:12:51.880



Just what happened. And and he discussed this whole thing.136701:12:52.239 --> 01:12:54.960



And I don't know if this this necessarily crossed over136801:12:55.000 --> 01:12:57.279



into to to the black culture or you know, the136901:12:57.279 --> 01:12:59.800



Black community or or the Asian community, I'm not sure137001:12:59.800 --> 01:13:03.159



that they are on medication and pills as much as137101:13:03.359 --> 01:13:04.359



the families are.137201:13:04.560 --> 01:13:05.840



Yeah, you're right, You're right.137301:13:06.119 --> 01:13:08.039



And I will say one of the things that I137401:13:08.119 --> 01:13:11.079



think Trump did try to do well and put a137501:13:11.119 --> 01:13:16.439



lot of energy in to was addressing the opioid epidemic.137601:13:17.600 --> 01:13:20.319



I mean, it's just totally out of control, and COVID137701:13:20.960 --> 01:13:27.119



exacerbated it because people were alone, and it made a137801:13:27.159 --> 01:13:31.000



lot of things worse, even like human trafficking because you know,137901:13:31.520 --> 01:13:34.039



you couldn't go out and interact and so it was138001:13:34.079 --> 01:13:37.880



easier to keep people controlled and keep people medicated and138101:13:37.920 --> 01:13:40.479



all of those things were kind of on steroids.138201:13:40.920 --> 01:13:45.000



Well, everybody was depressed. Yeah, they were turning too something.138301:13:45.000 --> 01:13:47.520



If they weren't turned to alcohol, they were turned to pills.138401:13:47.760 --> 01:13:51.199



You know, for the it's either that or marijuana, right,138501:13:52.159 --> 01:13:55.680



you pick your poison. But alcohol is more than poison.138601:13:55.720 --> 01:13:58.760



But you know what I'm saying. And so it really138701:13:58.880 --> 01:14:01.720



that did exacerbate. It really did not make things better138801:14:01.880 --> 01:14:04.880



at all. So that was that was a very bad period.138901:14:04.920 --> 01:14:07.319



But yeah, I think I think we have a real139001:14:07.399 --> 01:14:11.520



opioid epidemic. I think that the reality is you know,139101:14:12.199 --> 01:14:15.399



one one pill literally it chemically rewires your brain. It139201:14:15.439 --> 01:14:19.039



does it either is meant to suppress something or it's139301:14:19.119 --> 01:14:22.600



meant to add and make your brain produce more period139401:14:22.800 --> 01:14:25.279



you know, is it made to affect your nervous system139501:14:25.359 --> 01:14:27.760



or suppress your nervous system. Like everything you do to139601:14:27.800 --> 01:14:30.079



your body, when it comes to this, there's going to139701:14:30.119 --> 01:14:33.119



be a reaction that may not be positive over time,139801:14:33.199 --> 01:14:35.039



and now you have to take another pill to counteract139901:14:35.079 --> 01:14:38.039



that one. There's just too much junk in our bodies,140001:14:38.119 --> 01:14:40.000



you know, all the way from our food to to140101:14:40.000 --> 01:14:42.359



to Like I said, OPI ways, and I don't want140201:14:42.359 --> 01:14:44.720



to get stuck on this, but I'm I'm thinking that140301:14:44.720 --> 01:14:48.760



that is a very valid reason as to why you're140401:14:48.800 --> 01:14:51.960



seeing people act the way they do. I really do.140501:14:52.079 --> 01:14:54.520



Oh, thank you that that that's helpful. That's helpful.140601:14:54.960 --> 01:14:56.560



It's just like some of them might come down that140701:14:56.680 --> 01:14:58.359



some of that may come down to parenting.140801:14:58.399 --> 01:15:00.239



And of course there's lots of there is that too.140901:15:00.560 --> 01:15:04.279



Yeah, there's lots of things to challenge on parenting, certainly141001:15:04.359 --> 01:15:07.439



I know in the black community. So but yeah, a141101:15:07.479 --> 01:15:09.720



lot of that because it's like, well, let me just141201:15:09.760 --> 01:15:12.439



do this. I don't have to deal with that. Yeah,141301:15:12.439 --> 01:15:13.520



I'll tell you what.141401:15:14.600 --> 01:15:16.560



I'm sorry, I was gonna say, we can't deny the141501:15:16.640 --> 01:15:20.720



kids lately, uh or or even in honestly, even in141601:15:20.760 --> 01:15:23.039



the white Community's just be quite honest, a lot of141701:15:23.079 --> 01:15:25.279



parents when they were working, they really weren't giving the141801:15:25.359 --> 01:15:27.960



kid as much attention as as they wanted. And then141901:15:28.000 --> 01:15:30.840



there was also, you know from my general gen X right,142001:15:30.880 --> 01:15:32.960



and then all of a sudden Millennials. It's like the142101:15:33.079 --> 01:15:37.279



gen xers when they had kids, didn't raise them the142201:15:37.279 --> 01:15:39.399



same way, same way like let's say we were raised142301:15:40.239 --> 01:15:42.079



and then it was like, well now you're now you're142401:15:42.079 --> 01:15:45.119



caddling and panpering your child. Now you're not supposed to142501:15:45.119 --> 01:15:47.520



punish them. You can't hit them. Look, because there's between142601:15:47.560 --> 01:15:51.000



hitting and beating, all right, a little smack that's a142701:15:51.039 --> 01:15:52.359



lot different than taking the belt.142801:15:52.399 --> 01:15:55.359



And I mean, this is brutalized and we're not talking142901:15:55.359 --> 01:15:57.720



about brutal no, no, no, no, no, talking about correcting.143001:15:58.159 --> 01:16:01.680



We know what's wrong and what's right. And so combine143101:16:01.720 --> 01:16:05.039



that with the timeouts, the count to ten, the thirties,143201:16:05.520 --> 01:16:07.920



then you have the kids because there was no punishment,143301:16:07.920 --> 01:16:10.880



there was no correction. Then they're challenging the parent. The143401:16:10.920 --> 01:16:14.600



parent can't correct the kid. Now you have CPS come143501:16:14.640 --> 01:16:16.680



in and take you away if you even raise your time,143601:16:16.800 --> 01:16:18.920



if you even say that your kid's not the gender143701:16:18.960 --> 01:16:21.239



they believe, they separate you from your kid. Now, at143801:16:21.319 --> 01:16:23.119



least in California they can do. I don't know if143901:16:23.119 --> 01:16:26.399



it's that way in all fifty states, but it's insanity.144001:16:26.600 --> 01:16:28.760



I mean, what's the point of being a parent if144101:16:28.760 --> 01:16:30.640



you can't be a parent, you know? And then now144201:16:30.680 --> 01:16:32.840



you have the school system that is the parent. The144301:16:32.840 --> 01:16:35.199



state wants to be the parent, you know. And all144401:16:35.239 --> 01:16:38.520



the things that we're talking about are not Republican or Democrat.144501:16:38.880 --> 01:16:42.119



And the one things, Derek, that I am very tired of,144601:16:42.399 --> 01:16:46.920



is politicizing everything. Can we just talk about people and Americans? Like,144701:16:47.119 --> 01:16:48.960



I don't care what side drew on, It's not a144801:16:49.000 --> 01:16:53.680



team sport what you guys want to get another point? Democrats? Okay, Republicans,144901:16:53.720 --> 01:16:56.840



Look what I did, slammed. Who gives a damn doesn't145001:16:56.840 --> 01:16:59.079



benefit the American people. We all have to live in145101:16:59.119 --> 01:17:04.840



the same damn country. Tree does the policy work? Yeah,145201:17:04.920 --> 01:17:06.720



And that's the way I look at it. You know,145301:17:07.119 --> 01:17:09.560



I'm not Democrat anymore. I was a long time ago.145401:17:09.640 --> 01:17:12.399



But I think when the party started going too far145501:17:12.560 --> 01:17:15.439



off the deep end, I was like, it's never really145601:17:15.439 --> 01:17:18.000



not for me. And then you know, I became more conservative,145701:17:18.479 --> 01:17:20.840



But then again, I'm not. I'm not far right mag either,145801:17:20.880 --> 01:17:23.039



you know. I'm like, you know, you got to have145901:17:23.119 --> 01:17:24.479



check some bounds. You got to be able to hold146001:17:24.479 --> 01:17:27.479



people accountable. Did I like some of the Trump things146101:17:27.520 --> 01:17:29.640



Trump did? Yeah? Most people do like some things he does.146201:17:29.680 --> 01:17:30.600



Do we like everything he does?146301:17:30.600 --> 01:17:30.680



No?146401:17:30.800 --> 01:17:31.600



Is he presidential?146501:17:31.680 --> 01:17:32.039



Hell? No?146601:17:32.560 --> 01:17:36.000



You know, honestly, you could lover hate Obama. But the146701:17:36.079 --> 01:17:39.359



guy was great at his presentation. He knew how to speak,146801:17:39.359 --> 01:17:42.000



he knew how to present himself. You know, there's things146901:17:42.000 --> 01:17:43.960



he did that I can't agree with, especially when it147001:17:44.000 --> 01:17:47.520



came to these USAG drones indiscriminately killing people overseas getting147101:17:47.520 --> 01:17:49.880



the wrong targets. He killed entire family that was getting wet,147201:17:49.960 --> 01:17:52.640



you know, married, you know, kids in cages. I'll just147301:17:52.640 --> 01:17:54.920



just be honest to start with him, acl you tried147401:17:54.960 --> 01:17:58.079



to sue him for that? So what did he do?147501:17:58.119 --> 01:18:01.199



Bad stuff? Sure? But we did we ever have a147601:18:01.199 --> 01:18:05.399



perfect president? No? Absolutely not. You know that nobody's infallible.147701:18:05.399 --> 01:18:07.760



We're all human. We're all going to be human, We're147801:18:07.800 --> 01:18:13.479



all going to be subject to influence, right, we're all147901:18:13.520 --> 01:18:15.720



going to cave in. Hopefully not. But I mean, let's148001:18:15.720 --> 01:18:17.399



be honest, if someone waves one hundred million dollars in148101:18:17.439 --> 01:18:19.319



your face, most people are just saying, I'm I can say, no,148201:18:20.640 --> 01:18:23.159



we don't have a perfect person. I mean, the presidency148301:18:23.239 --> 01:18:27.640



is a popularity contest. Seriously, a lot of people that148401:18:27.640 --> 01:18:30.119



are that are getting elected don't have the credential they148501:18:30.159 --> 01:18:33.800



need to lead an actual nation. Like literally, so what148601:18:33.840 --> 01:18:35.520



you're a mayor for a little bit doesn't mean you148701:18:35.520 --> 01:18:37.239



could lead an entire nation. And all of a sudden148801:18:37.239 --> 01:18:39.840



you're talking to putin no, no hold on. You know,148901:18:40.199 --> 01:18:42.520



it's ridiculous how we elect our presidents.149001:18:43.000 --> 01:18:47.079



Or you are you had a popular TV show right149101:18:47.600 --> 01:18:47.840



or that?149201:18:48.079 --> 01:18:52.199



Yeah, I'm in agree with you. It's it's it's crazy.149301:18:52.199 --> 01:18:54.920



It's like everybody is like, we took our politics and149401:18:54.960 --> 01:18:59.720



how we elect our present based on high school popularity.149501:19:00.079 --> 01:19:01.640



Just what it really feels like. It's like we didn't149601:19:01.640 --> 01:19:04.640



really evolve past that. It just doesn't make any sense149701:19:04.640 --> 01:19:07.439



to it really doesn't. I hope that we can evolve,149801:19:08.399 --> 01:19:11.079



hopefully soon, given given all the tension out there in149901:19:11.119 --> 01:19:14.720



the world. We can we can hopefully like grow up150001:19:15.800 --> 01:19:18.399



and and and treat everything like actual adults instead of150101:19:18.840 --> 01:19:20.840



you know, figuring like kids in the playard.150201:19:21.199 --> 01:19:24.119



I really do, yeah, And I agree with you about150301:19:24.159 --> 01:19:26.119



something you mentioned on medicaid.150401:19:26.199 --> 01:19:27.319



I think if you.150501:19:28.960 --> 01:19:31.880



Are in your right mind and physically you're capable, you150601:19:31.920 --> 01:19:34.399



should work. Because I don't want to go to the150701:19:34.439 --> 01:19:36.319



grocery store and I got to pick out a few150801:19:36.319 --> 01:19:38.520



items because I got a little bit of money, and150901:19:38.560 --> 01:19:41.239



I see somebody come up with a full cart and151001:19:41.359 --> 01:19:44.560



they whip out there be meat guard and you know151101:19:44.640 --> 01:19:48.640



they're sitting at home and fully capable. But I do151201:19:48.680 --> 01:19:52.119



think we need to make provisions further vulnerable and for.151301:19:52.119 --> 01:19:54.439



Those who, yes, are are at risk.151401:19:54.760 --> 01:19:58.079



But one of the things that that that unfortunately we're151501:19:58.119 --> 01:20:01.479



going to see unless there are some real changes in151601:20:01.560 --> 01:20:04.479



the big beautiful Bill, is that we're going to see151701:20:04.520 --> 01:20:08.159



a lot of rural hospitals close, because we've already been151801:20:08.239 --> 01:20:13.119



seeing that, and now that's what every state is saying151901:20:13.159 --> 01:20:15.880



in some states are a lot more rule than others. California,152001:20:15.920 --> 01:20:18.680



I know you have your areas of rural areas, but152101:20:18.760 --> 01:20:21.439



I know you can like you can drive like from152201:20:21.479 --> 01:20:25.319



city to city to city and just like almost yeah152301:20:25.760 --> 01:20:29.159



in some places, but you think about where you know,152401:20:29.239 --> 01:20:32.640



and and I'm not criticizing this, I'm wishing this wasn't152501:20:32.640 --> 01:20:36.560



the case. But much of President trump space is in152601:20:36.600 --> 01:20:42.319



these rural, mostly rural states like Mississippi and Alabama out west.152701:20:42.479 --> 01:20:46.720



And these people already have so few hospitals and if152801:20:46.720 --> 01:20:48.720



some of those clothes, what are they going to have152901:20:48.760 --> 01:20:51.560



to do? Drive two hundred miles And women have to153001:20:51.720 --> 01:20:55.319



cross state lines because of the laws against you know,153101:20:55.399 --> 01:21:00.119



to prevent women from getting healthcare. And so these are153201:21:00.119 --> 01:21:01.880



some of the things that are I think are gonna153301:21:02.079 --> 01:21:04.439



unfortunately get worse before they get better.153401:21:04.520 --> 01:21:06.359



And well they'll test us.153501:21:06.600 --> 01:21:09.520



Did you experience any of that in any degree during153601:21:09.520 --> 01:21:10.920



his first tren Oh?153701:21:10.960 --> 01:21:13.520



Absolutely absolutely, yeah, absolutely.153801:21:13.720 --> 01:21:16.920



Uh there's a I know here in our region we153901:21:17.079 --> 01:21:21.720



lost well us here in our state, like three three154001:21:21.840 --> 01:21:26.119



rural hospitals, and I know that there were well over154101:21:26.159 --> 01:21:29.359



a dozen that have clothes in our eight southeastern states154201:21:29.439 --> 01:21:32.720



and several right now, all right, risk and the cuts154301:21:32.720 --> 01:21:36.479



in medicare are gonna they're gonna make several more clothes154401:21:37.079 --> 01:21:40.000



and so it's it's gonna be it's gonna be a154501:21:40.079 --> 01:21:45.159



challenge for an area that already were challenged. And a154601:21:45.199 --> 01:21:48.640



lot of times public transportation, you know, is not there154701:21:48.680 --> 01:21:50.520



for people. You can't get on the bus to go154801:21:50.600 --> 01:21:55.359



downtown to the Level five trauma hospital. That's the safety154901:21:55.399 --> 01:21:58.760



in that hospital with your you know, eighty miles from155001:21:58.840 --> 01:21:59.960



your nearest hospital.155101:22:00.159 --> 01:22:02.479



So yeah, those those were some of the issues. And155201:22:02.520 --> 01:22:04.119



one of the other things that he did.155301:22:03.960 --> 01:22:07.239



Have a real focus on was like on workforce development,155401:22:07.319 --> 01:22:11.960



trying to to to see where there were nursage, shortages155501:22:12.039 --> 01:22:15.880



of nurses and shortages of obg y ns and these155601:22:15.960 --> 01:22:19.359



kind of kind of issues. And that's something that we're155701:22:19.399 --> 01:22:22.399



going to continue to struggle with and to struggle within155801:22:22.439 --> 01:22:24.720



the last and with the Biden administration, they're going to155901:22:24.720 --> 01:22:27.239



continue to struggle with. But I think that there has156001:22:27.319 --> 01:22:33.159



to be a lot of intentionality and a desire to156101:22:34.359 --> 01:22:37.399



plug some of those gaps. And that's what where my156201:22:37.560 --> 01:22:41.520



concern is is is that even on the radar, because156301:22:42.359 --> 01:22:44.760



you know, it's gonna be a lot of cuts to Medicaid,156401:22:44.880 --> 01:22:46.960



a lot of cuts. I mean they're talking about if156501:22:46.960 --> 01:22:49.720



you if you cut social Security, you know, people work156601:22:49.840 --> 01:22:53.439



your whole lives on the premise that this is what156701:22:53.479 --> 01:22:56.520



you're going to get at the end. So we'll see156801:22:57.000 --> 01:23:00.079



that's that's you know, there's an insistence.156901:22:59.520 --> 01:23:05.279



That solid security has been mishandled by every administration, Okay,157001:23:06.039 --> 01:23:09.520



and that's the unfortunate truth. You know, it was supposed157101:23:09.520 --> 01:23:11.119



to be a safety in it when it was first enacted,157201:23:11.920 --> 01:23:16.119



and it became people's retirements because honestly, you know, throughout157301:23:16.119 --> 01:23:17.600



the years pensions went away.157401:23:17.640 --> 01:23:22.159



You can't even very few people have a pensiancy these days.157501:23:21.920 --> 01:23:24.520



Right, and so your four owing k ain't could to157601:23:24.560 --> 01:23:27.239



pay out forever if you have thirty more years to live,157701:23:27.279 --> 01:23:29.399



good luck on stretching three or four hundred thousand dollars157801:23:29.520 --> 01:23:32.279



is not going to happen. Just do the math. So157901:23:32.279 --> 01:23:34.319



solid security is a big issue. But the big issue158001:23:34.319 --> 01:23:36.960



we have with it is the government or Congress decided158101:23:36.960 --> 01:23:38.880



to use a slush fund. They reached into it too158201:23:38.920 --> 01:23:42.000



much thinking nobody would notice. And let's just be honest,158301:23:42.039 --> 01:23:43.680



over your lifetime, I mean, I'm not gonna do the158401:23:43.680 --> 01:23:45.079



math in front of because I'm horrible at it on158501:23:45.119 --> 01:23:48.399



the spot, but you know, let's just say, over your lifetime,158601:23:48.439 --> 01:23:50.439



you paid you know, over a million or two million158701:23:50.439 --> 01:23:54.680



dollars right over over your lifetime. You didn't, you didn't158801:23:54.680 --> 01:23:58.560



earn any interest on it. Yeah, and then the government158901:23:58.560 --> 01:24:01.760



tells you what you're allowed to take on, how much,159001:24:01.920 --> 01:24:03.840



at what age, and if you take it at a159101:24:03.840 --> 01:24:06.039



certain age too early, they penalize you and take more159201:24:06.039 --> 01:24:06.680



away from you.159301:24:06.880 --> 01:24:07.359



That's right.159401:24:07.840 --> 01:24:09.560



Tell me how that works, because you know, damn well,159501:24:09.600 --> 01:24:14.119



they're earning interest on those accounts, they're not just holding it.159601:24:14.760 --> 01:24:17.159



But yet we don't benefit from it, and we don't159701:24:17.159 --> 01:24:18.840



have a sales to whether or not we can put159801:24:18.880 --> 01:24:22.119



into it or not. That doesn't make any sense.159901:24:22.560 --> 01:24:23.800



Yeah, I agree, I agree.160001:24:23.920 --> 01:24:27.000



And then not to give people the option of going160101:24:27.600 --> 01:24:30.159



the private route where they know they can invest their160201:24:30.199 --> 01:24:33.000



money and make more, that's that's terrible.160301:24:33.199 --> 01:24:34.800



And and and I believe me I have.160401:24:35.079 --> 01:24:38.079



I'm in that boat because I started collecting such security160501:24:38.079 --> 01:24:39.319



a couple of years ago.160601:24:39.439 --> 01:24:40.720



So my father too.160701:24:40.840 --> 01:24:43.840



Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, because all of us we160801:24:43.920 --> 01:24:46.600



think about our parents and our aunts and uncles and160901:24:47.039 --> 01:24:51.119



people who you know, who trusted that system, and so161001:24:51.159 --> 01:24:54.760



the system is failing us, no question.161101:24:54.479 --> 01:24:57.800



It's unfortunate. I don't even know how we fix it161201:24:57.880 --> 01:24:59.680



at this point. Is if you even fix.161301:24:59.600 --> 01:25:03.479



A well, I think one thing we can certainly do,161401:25:03.560 --> 01:25:05.800



and you're right, it may not be, but is at161501:25:05.880 --> 01:25:10.680



least give people an option of investing in their money161601:25:10.720 --> 01:25:14.760



in that system, or at least or maybe part of161701:25:14.760 --> 01:25:17.439



it in the system, and giving them some flexibility to161801:25:17.520 --> 01:25:20.119



do some things in the in the in the marketplace,161901:25:20.239 --> 01:25:23.279



you know, to uh and and I think if we162001:25:23.319 --> 01:25:25.119



don't do that, but yeah.162101:25:24.960 --> 01:25:26.479



It's it's gonna take a lot.162201:25:26.560 --> 01:25:29.159



It's gonna take a lot of agreement, which is something162301:25:29.199 --> 01:25:31.880



that we have very little of, right, I think a lot.162401:25:31.720 --> 01:25:35.239



Of that Derek started in the school system because I mean,162501:25:35.279 --> 01:25:38.920



they don't even teach homech anymore in most places, that's true.162601:25:39.079 --> 01:25:40.920



I mean most kids don't even get out and knowing162701:25:41.000 --> 01:25:43.359



how to cook, wash your clothes unless her parents teach them.162801:25:43.800 --> 01:25:44.239



That's right.162901:25:44.279 --> 01:25:45.720



You know what my mom would tell you if she163001:25:45.800 --> 01:25:47.800



was here, She goes, I wouldn't letter touch my clothes.163101:25:47.800 --> 01:25:50.479



I washed my unclothes, you know, I'm so big about it.163201:25:51.000 --> 01:25:52.640



And I loved cooking, you know, was just it was163301:25:52.680 --> 01:25:55.239



just a weird thing. But but in school I did163401:25:55.279 --> 01:25:57.520



have some homech like I was introduced to, like it163501:25:57.600 --> 01:25:59.880



was required to take a class you can choose for163601:26:00.000 --> 01:26:03.000



regardless whether you liked it. So I was always drawn163701:26:03.079 --> 01:26:05.720



to cook, and so you know, hey, I became decent163801:26:05.760 --> 01:26:09.119



at that. But what they also didn't do, even though163901:26:09.119 --> 01:26:11.520



they had on me in my time and I'm sure164001:26:11.520 --> 01:26:16.760



in your time, is they never taught finances though. So164101:26:17.600 --> 01:26:19.840



you know the option, as you said, to be able164201:26:19.880 --> 01:26:24.119



to invest in an account outside that you could put164301:26:24.159 --> 01:26:27.279



into and let it grow and mature over time. You know,164401:26:27.279 --> 01:26:29.199



there's many ways you can do it. And I'm not164501:26:29.199 --> 01:26:30.840



gonna advise anybody. I'm just saying there's ways you can164601:26:30.880 --> 01:26:34.880



do it. Look into it yourself. But they don't teach that.164701:26:35.159 --> 01:26:36.920



They don't even teach you how to balance your checking,164801:26:37.439 --> 01:26:40.239



you know, your bank account. We have a society of164901:26:40.319 --> 01:26:42.600



kids coming out that don't have a real concept of165001:26:42.640 --> 01:26:47.279



how to handle and manage money, and so how are165101:26:47.279 --> 01:26:49.600



we gonna how are we going to be able to165201:26:51.039 --> 01:26:53.119



assume that they would be able to make the right165301:26:53.159 --> 01:26:55.920



decisions for themselves. I'm not saying the government should do165401:26:55.920 --> 01:27:00.680



it for them, but there's no reason at all that165501:27:00.960 --> 01:27:03.279



this should not be part of their education. They should165601:27:03.359 --> 01:27:06.960



understand that there's a thing called taxes, and this is165701:27:06.960 --> 01:27:10.279



how this works. You know, this is what happens when165801:27:10.279 --> 01:27:12.680



you're earn a wage this think about budgeting, like they165901:27:12.680 --> 01:27:14.920



don't teach that anymore. And I know it sounds very elementary,166001:27:15.399 --> 01:27:17.800



but you know, our kids are a future, right, as166101:27:18.199 --> 01:27:20.560



I said, If they're not coming out together end with166201:27:20.600 --> 01:27:22.960



this knowledge, If your parents aren't teaching them because they're166301:27:23.000 --> 01:27:24.479



too busy working and trying to keep up with the166401:27:24.520 --> 01:27:26.560



bills they have just to make sure the kids can eat,166501:27:27.479 --> 01:27:30.560



then they're just going to come out of the household166601:27:30.840 --> 01:27:32.359



and they're gonna be stuck in the same cycle that166701:27:32.399 --> 01:27:34.680



most of us were. Because most of us didn't know anybody.166801:27:34.680 --> 01:27:37.319



We're just like, oh, yeah, this is what happens. You166901:27:37.359 --> 01:27:40.199



take it out automatically. Great, it's going to be their formulator. Cool,167001:27:40.439 --> 01:27:42.760



I got so many hours and we earned this much. Okay,167101:27:42.760 --> 01:27:45.039



you go to retire. Then wait a minute, what happened?167201:27:45.039 --> 01:27:46.479



Why I'm only getting a quarter? What you told me167301:27:46.880 --> 01:27:49.560



doesn't make any sense. So I think I think a167401:27:49.560 --> 01:27:51.640



lot of what you said is correct, But we need167501:27:51.680 --> 01:27:54.640



to start teaching it at schools. They got to be167601:27:54.680 --> 01:27:56.199



exposed to the idea of it.167701:27:58.279 --> 01:28:03.079



Yep, you're right. It's like up and.167801:28:03.680 --> 01:28:07.520



Some auto mechanics, some basic classes that that just don't167901:28:07.520 --> 01:28:12.800



get taught anymore. Some some instances where that's changing because168001:28:12.840 --> 01:28:14.600



a lot of kids they don't even know how to168101:28:14.680 --> 01:28:17.079



do basic maths. It's like if you put them if168201:28:17.079 --> 01:28:19.039



they're going to work at Burger King or one they's168301:28:19.479 --> 01:28:23.000



they can't even give you the proper change if she168401:28:23.159 --> 01:28:26.840



doesn't tell them because they're so used to the calculator168501:28:26.880 --> 01:28:28.079



doing it everything for them.168601:28:28.159 --> 01:28:29.760



Yeah, it tells you, tells you what to do. It's like,168701:28:29.760 --> 01:28:31.119



here's your mountain, here's what you get back.168801:28:31.479 --> 01:28:34.640



Don't even have mom and Dad's phone number because it's168901:28:35.039 --> 01:28:37.560



it's not the machine that.169001:28:37.159 --> 01:28:41.560



So yeah, well I'm reliant. Yeah well, yeah, me too.169101:28:41.760 --> 01:28:43.680



I have a good friend that tells me, yeah, don't169201:28:43.720 --> 01:28:45.239



don't be so reliant on that.169301:28:45.720 --> 01:28:48.319



So, yeah, we've got work to do, George.169401:28:48.119 --> 01:28:48.600



Yeah we do.169501:28:49.680 --> 01:28:49.960



Well.169601:28:50.239 --> 01:28:52.840



Look, I don't know if you want to keep going169701:28:52.880 --> 01:28:55.399



on on all of this, but I I personally think169801:28:55.439 --> 01:28:56.880



we covered a lot of grounds.169901:28:56.960 --> 01:28:59.800



We did. We did, we did. I'll tell you this170001:29:00.199 --> 01:29:02.039



probably about twenty years of my life.170101:29:02.199 --> 01:29:02.960



Sure, I vote.170201:29:02.960 --> 01:29:05.920



I voted Republican more than I did Democrat. I believe170301:29:05.960 --> 01:29:10.640



in a lot of Republican principles. I believe in. I mean, hell,170401:29:11.079 --> 01:29:14.239



Lincoln was a Republican and he wasn't flawless, but he170501:29:14.279 --> 01:29:17.640



did flip free the slaves. And it was the Dixiecrats170601:29:17.760 --> 01:29:21.840



that the Southern Democrats that fought against integration and.170701:29:23.520 --> 01:29:24.399



Inequality.170801:29:24.560 --> 01:29:27.399



But and then I finally got to the point where170901:29:27.920 --> 01:29:30.439



it dawned on me that you can't just care about171001:29:30.479 --> 01:29:32.600



the kid and the womb and not care about them171101:29:32.600 --> 01:29:34.880



once they get here. So I think it's you know,171201:29:34.960 --> 01:29:37.800



there's there's there's there's issues on both sides, and I171301:29:38.800 --> 01:29:42.000



see those issues too. So I think we're we're a171401:29:42.000 --> 01:29:45.319



really good country when we can move more towards the171501:29:45.359 --> 01:29:49.079



middle where there's uh, you know, I mean there's always171601:29:49.159 --> 01:29:52.920



room for debate. But yeah, extremism on either side is171701:29:52.960 --> 01:29:54.039



not good for us.171801:29:54.359 --> 01:29:57.720



I think it takes people doing what we're doing, just yeah,171901:29:57.800 --> 01:30:00.960



talking and having the conversation and not being afraid to172001:30:00.960 --> 01:30:01.560



say things.172101:30:01.600 --> 01:30:02.359



You know, that's right.172201:30:02.560 --> 01:30:04.720



I mean, you need to be respectful, but we should172301:30:04.760 --> 01:30:07.319



be able to at least discuss it absolutely, you know,172401:30:07.359 --> 01:30:09.039



and if it's defensive, hey, you let me know. I'll172501:30:09.079 --> 01:30:10.560



let you know. Good, you know, we'll deal with it.172601:30:10.640 --> 01:30:13.359



But there's no reason not to have the conversation.172701:30:13.760 --> 01:30:16.159



And usually when we talk, we find that we have172801:30:16.199 --> 01:30:19.640



a lot more in common than we do. Uh that172901:30:19.640 --> 01:30:22.159



that that that the things that divide us.173001:30:22.800 --> 01:30:24.680



No, this has been good. I appreciate it to it.173101:30:24.760 --> 01:30:26.840



Yeah, And you know why I think that is the173201:30:26.880 --> 01:30:30.239



case they're Derek, is because I think in the end,173301:30:30.359 --> 01:30:32.239



you know, just just humans in general, we all want173401:30:32.279 --> 01:30:35.039



the same things. We want to say, Shelter. We want173501:30:35.039 --> 01:30:35.680



to be able to live.173601:30:35.920 --> 01:30:39.079



Yeah. Yeah, I want to earn a decent living and173701:30:39.159 --> 01:30:42.720



live and be able to respect one another. And you know, yeah,173801:30:42.800 --> 01:30:46.039



that's that's that's the real American dream right there.173901:30:46.359 --> 01:30:47.640



That's what we need to get back to.174001:30:47.760 --> 01:30:50.079



I mean, that's right, that's right, that's right where there's174101:30:50.079 --> 01:30:52.000



a lot of self correcting that needs to be that.174201:30:52.520 --> 01:30:55.079



Well, hey, you know what, you've had it on the174301:30:55.119 --> 01:30:57.439



screen the whole time. I'm horrible at this. My brother's good.174401:30:57.520 --> 01:30:59.880



He does the finger thing. But just tell everybody about174501:30:59.880 --> 01:31:02.840



your book where you can get it and uh, where174601:31:02.840 --> 01:31:05.479



it's available, because I mean, I think I think it's174701:31:05.479 --> 01:31:08.239



worth reading. I mean we need to we need to174801:31:08.279 --> 01:31:09.920



hear these perspectives. We really do.174901:31:11.079 --> 01:31:14.039



Sure, well, thank you, George. Yeah, you can get my book.175001:31:14.119 --> 01:31:16.880



I would suggest that, and I don't know, maybe you175101:31:16.920 --> 01:31:22.920



can put this like overview on your on your site175201:31:23.000 --> 01:31:25.239



or something, but I would tell people to go to175301:31:25.600 --> 01:31:27.880



h Of course, you can google me and it'll take175401:31:27.920 --> 01:31:31.359



you when the options will be my website, which is175501:31:31.560 --> 01:31:36.479



www dot Derekgilliard dot com, and you can find out175601:31:36.479 --> 01:31:38.399



a little bit more about me there. You can also175701:31:38.439 --> 01:31:42.640



get it in Amazon at Barnes and Noble. Uh pretty much.175801:31:42.760 --> 01:31:45.520



Uh yeah, those would those would be the real good places.175901:31:45.560 --> 01:31:47.920



But go to my website. Google, just google me. It'll176001:31:47.960 --> 01:31:50.920



take you to my website and you'll learn about what176101:31:51.000 --> 01:31:53.600



motivates me and why I thought this was an important176201:31:53.680 --> 01:31:56.560



story to tell. And we'll watch it and see how176301:31:56.560 --> 01:31:58.960



it unfolds, and it's it's gonna be interesting.176401:31:58.960 --> 01:32:01.279



But I've enjoyed it. Awesome.176501:32:01.399 --> 01:32:03.960



I appreciate your time. I do and and again, it176601:32:04.000 --> 01:32:07.000



took a while to get this to happen, but I176701:32:07.039 --> 01:32:08.720



think it was worth it. It was a great conversation.176801:32:08.800 --> 01:32:11.479



I think everybody that Jesus is going to get something176901:32:11.520 --> 01:32:14.000



out of it for sure. And I'm gonna encourage people177001:32:14.039 --> 01:32:16.840



to buy your book. And yes you could. You can177101:32:17.479 --> 01:32:20.439



just google Derek and you can easily find. It comes177201:32:20.520 --> 01:32:22.399



right up, so he's not hidden.177301:32:23.159 --> 01:32:25.520



Absolutely, absolutely, thank you, my friend.177401:32:25.640 --> 01:32:28.560



You are welcome. Thank you, sir, Appreciate you, right, sir,177501:32:28.680 --> 01:32:29.079



thank you.177601:32:29.680 --> 01:32:45.279



Great night. Your content feel attention behind redemption UH stance177701:32:45.600 --> 01:33:10.479



on do