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You are listening to a Funds Media Network production. Welcome
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world The Blaze. Listeners to episode sixty two. On today's show,
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I feature my very special guest, Brian Townsend. He's a
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twenty eight year law enforcement veteran and a retired Supervisory
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Special Agent and former Resident Agent in Charge for the
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US Drug Enforcement Administration, also known as the DEEA. Currently,
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Brian is the founder and principal of Legal six Training,
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where he provides consulting services and training to businesses and
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law enforcement entities worldwide. He also launched Only two Milligrams, Inc.
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A five oh one c nonprofit organization where he leverages
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his extensive experience and knowledge in the opioid field to
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raise awareness and foster a deeper understanding of the opioid
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epidemic and an illicit fentanyl crisis. We have a very
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eye opening and informative conversation, so let's keep going. Thank
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you for being flexible. I'm sorry to be fairly on
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time here. You caught my attention as I was looking
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and I was searching literally doing a show on the border,
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and one of the things I kept coming up, obviously
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and they keep talking about, is the fentanyl crisis. And
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all the drugs coming across the border. And then I
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came across your name and then saw that you were
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a DAA agent and I'm sure experience goes way beyond that,
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but involved in law enforcement, so I thought i'd reach
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out to you. And then I also saw that you
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train other law enforcement agencies still to this day.
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Is that correct? That's correct?
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So I wanted I wanted to talk to you because
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you are an expert on this and the problem I'm
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having that that we're seeing these days with social media
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is everybody has an opinion on something but doesn't have
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all the facts. And so that's the whole reason I
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wanted to talk to just like can we get some
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real inside information on what's really happening, what the realities
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are fact from fiction? And then also want to talk
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about like what you're doing now after you left the
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DEA and how you're still involved in all of this.
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Sure, yeah, perfect. So I was with the DEA for
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twenty three years. Prior to that, I was a police
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officer for five years, so twenty eight years in law
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enforcement in an active capacity, you know, wearing the badge
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and gun. But I still work with law enforcement post
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DEA in a training capacity.
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What's your involvement with training in law enforcement?
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Though?
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Like, what are you doing as force training?
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So I wear a couple of hats. I went to work. Well, Actually,
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when I retired from DEA in twenty twenty two, I
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started my own training and consulting business, Eagle six Training.
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And I don't just train law enforcement, but that's something
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that's the world I navigated in for the last thirty years,
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so I have a lot of contacts and it just
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was a natural fit and I'm doing quite a bit
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with law enforcement in that capacity. And then that led
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me to a risk center. Uh there's six ris centers
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across the United States, and there's one in Missouri that
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serves the Midwest and it's the Midwest Organized Crime Information Center,
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and they hired me as a law enforcement training coordinator.
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Started part time and now now I'm full time and
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I train law enforcement in the nine states that we serve.
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So I do Egle six training in the forty one
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states and MCIC and the nine States. And then I
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started a nonprofit organization of five oh one c three
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IRS recognized nonprofit to address specifically the fentanyl crisis, and
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we're actually expanding into more threats and trends and what
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we can address to make our community safer. And right
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now that focus has been illicit ventanyl.
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What what are you offering through your nonprofit in terms
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of training and awareness when it comes to feneral.
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So we have we have three classes that My flagship
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class is a four hour comprehensive class. It's it's it's
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under It's the Illicit Fentanyl Crisis Understanding, Awareness and Action.
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It's a four hour class and it's it really is
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the kitchen sink. I mean, we talk about you know
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what fentanyl is, you know the fact that only two
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milligrams is enough to kill you if it gets in
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your system, The cartels, the border, social media, the dark web.
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I mean, we really really talk about everything. That presentation
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changes a lot. I keep up to date on a
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lot of the research I get. I have access to
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a lot of the bulletins. Still, I'm still involved with
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a lot of folks at THEA and so I'm quite
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up to date on what's going on in the illicit
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fentanyl world. And so I'm always changing that presentation and
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making sure all the statistics and informations up to date.
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And like I said, that's a four hour, very very
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comprehensive program. I've done ninety five or ninety six now
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across the United States. I have a shorter presentation that
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I call a lunche and learn. I've had a lot
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of executives and senior business leaders that are interested in
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learning more about Listit ventanyl, but they've told me they
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don't have four hours to spare, so they give me
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an hour and they kind of get the overview. That's
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gone really well. And then I have a program I
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called Chattering Dreams, which is for students, and I've done
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it for younger students, but my primary audience so far
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has been high school and college students, and that's really
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just giving them information and making them aware of the
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fentanyl crisis and the changing drug landscape.
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So two milligrams is enough to kill.
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Yeah, two milligrams, So a couple of granules assault or saan.
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Yeah, Okay, it's so potent in that dangerous that but
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there's got to be a max a huge amount of
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profit behind it, because for the cartels, for example, to
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take such a risk of using something that you can
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literally just come in contact with it if it absorbs
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in your skin, right and gets into your bloodstream. Is
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it that dangerous? Can it be that dangerous?
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No? And that that is I'm glad you brought that up.
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So in twenty sixteen, DEA put out a officer safety
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bulletin and then that went to the public as well.
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Is that you know that there was a risk of
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phtonol exposure, that it could absorb in your skin, that
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you know, just being around it could could make you overdose.
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And we now know that's that's that's not factual. We
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know that's that's incorrect, and it's a very dangerous drug
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and we should respect that. But just being around, merely
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being around it, you know, won't won't put anybody in jeopardy. Again,
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respect the drug use, use whatever ppe makes you feel confident.
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You know, I always wear naitral gloves and that's what
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I recommend, and that's what I wore when I was
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around it, and here I am. It has to get
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into your bloodstream. It has to get through a mucous membrane.
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You know, you're snorting it, you're injecting it, you're swallowing
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a pill. It's got to get into your body somehow.
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Just merely being around it or even touching it. It's
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not going not going to cause any harm.
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Is it always a case where finnyls being used to
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as something that's mixed into other drugs? Is it ever
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used just on its own, because I mean two milligrams
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is not a lot. Yeah, how is it being utilized?
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Yeah? So it got into our drug supply via heroin.
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It was when heroin took off. After the legal opioid
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crisis in the nineteen nineties that started with oxyconton, we
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saw an increase in heroin use and the traffickers needed
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to cut heroin, and fentanyl was the perfect cut because
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it is an opioid, so it has the same properties
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as heroin, and it's much cheaper. It's synthetic, and it's
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very potent and it's very addictive. So they started to
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put it into our drug supply via heroin and then
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it just took off and now we see it in cocaine,
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we see it methamphetamine, we see it in all the
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counterfeit pills. Do people use fentanyl alone, Yeah, but typically
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it's through other drugs, you know, the heroin, the cocaine,
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the methinphetamine.
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Uh.
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If you if you find someone who's struggling with substitutes disorders,
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you know, addiction, who is using just fentanyl. That's uh.
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I don't want say it's rare, but uh, I would
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more than likely if you were to follow their path,
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their drug use path, it probably started with another drug
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and then it led to the fentanyl.
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That's actually pretty infortive because I think I think there's
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a lot of misunderstanding on how it was being used
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exactly because uh, you see on the news lately in
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social media, they just talk about fentanyl by itself, and yeah,
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I think some people think it's just they're taking that
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on its own, which would be very dangerous to do.
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So it seems that it's in combination with another drug
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or used to cut another drug.
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Yeah, absolutely, that that's how it's most likely taken and
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and in fact, that's how most people are why they're dying,
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is they have no idea that it's fentanyl in the
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uh in the drugs that they're taking. That's why the
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street drugs are so dangerous right now, is is uh
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you know, you think you're getting a pill, you think
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you're getting percoset or oxy here or know or even adderall.
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It doesn't have to be an opioid and then boom,
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you got fentanyl in it, or you think you're using
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cocaine or method fetamine. There are people using fentanyl, like
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I said, but but typically it's it's in combination with
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another drug.
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Understood, So what's what's driving what's driving fentanyl in its
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use in general? Obviously there's a need or demand. Right,
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We're looking at it from a market or capitalist capitalistic perspective,
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So this is obviously making drugs in general more profitable. Right,
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Who are the major suppliers of fentanyl? I mean, we
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always hear China thrown around, We hear you know, other
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countries and other other nefarious actors involved. But from your experience,
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who are the major players involved that really helped to
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supply this for what it's used for.
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So, so the chemicals, the major players and the chemicals
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are are China. India's number two, but China's number one
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and by far number one. So those chemicals are shipped
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from China primary early into Mexico and the drug cartels
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will take shipment usually at the ports, and then from
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there they're trucked into locations in Mexico where where they're
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you know, their chemicals are made into fentanyl. It's the
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same way they did or they just continue to do
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with methamphetamine. The chemicals come from places like China, they
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come into the ports, they get trucked into the different
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labs and the different locations, and then they make the
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methamphetamine and then they smuggle into the US. The two
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primary organizations in Mexico that are behind that are the
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Sinaloa Cartel, the CDs in the Jalisco New Generation, the CJNG.
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Those are the two primary drug cartels transnational criminal organizations
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that are manufacturing and smuggling fentanyl into the United States.
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So it is primarily China and the Mexican cartels or
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those two Mexican cartels that you mentioned.
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Yes, absolutely, you know, I think about how methanphetamine. You know,
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if if you follow the history of methamphetamine, you remember
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in the in the nineteen nineties and and even in
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the early two thousands, we had a huge meth problem
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in the United States and it's still a big the
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United States. I mean, it's the most c drug in
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the US. But we had a lot of these little
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labs that popped up everywhere, right, and so what do
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we do? We started to regulate the different the chemicals
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like a Federan And to this day, if you need
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like good pseudo fed the strong stuff, you have to
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go to the you know, prescription yeah, or or or
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behind the behind the counter, you have to you have
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to give your driver's licensing and fill that little thing out.
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And what what that did overnight is that it really
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slowed down the small metham fetamine labs in the United States.
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I mean we were getting gosh, we were getting several
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hundred a week to now you might get two a year. Right,
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So at that time the cartel said, hey, wait, this
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is this is a great opportunity. So they went to
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places like China and India. It says, hey, can we
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get these chemicals? Can we get these shipped to us?
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And that's exactly what happened. They started to ship these
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chemicals to them and they would make the meth and
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fetamie and that's where we started the super labs and
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things like that. And give you an idea. I worked
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down on the border from two thousand nine to twenty sixteen,
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and we were paying probably twenty one thousand dollars a
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pound for meth at the time. And they just took
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over and right now, you can buy a pound of
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methamphetamine for about anywhere from eight hundred to fifteen hundred
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dollars for a pound. It's incredible. So now fast forward
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ten twenty years, fentanyl becomes popular. They need, like I
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said earlier, they needed a way to cut heroin to
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you know, because you never sell a raw product. So
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the need for fentanyl grew. And it's such an addictive
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substance and it's very cheap, like said, completely synthetic man made.
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So they when they were making those phone calls to
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the Chinese suppliers and the suppliers in China, they said, hey,
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by the way, we need the chemicals to make fentanyl now,
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and of course those relationships were already established because of
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the meth and fetamine. They're like, yeah, perfect, So yeah, absolutely,
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that's that's the pipeline right there, China to the two
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main cartels in Mexico, and then it's uh, it's transported
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into the US the same way that they've successfully transported
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other drugs into the US for decades.
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So when politics aside, I'm just going to say, when
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so when President Trump says the cartels are a problem
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and this is why, and and people think he's being
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whatever racis, naphone book, however you want to label it.
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He is telling the truth. The cartels are an issue
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when it comes to this. Sorry, am I right?
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Yeah? And absolutely, and both parties have I have said that,
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said that, and I know Trump's a very polarizing figure. Definitely,
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but what he said is is not It's not original
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or it's not unique. This has been a shared feeling
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from from politicians on both sides of the aisle. I
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mean one hundred percent. I mean, now the approaches are
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a little different, but but yeah, these two and that's why,
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you know, for the last gosh, for the last couple
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of years, the strategic focus of DA has been these
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to these two cartels. You know, before I retired.
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What has been the hurdles Because I know you have
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some connections. You can't talk about current investigations, but at
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the same time, from your experience and what what you know,
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what happened in the hurdles and trying to stop this.
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A lot of it has been well, I'm a lot
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more freer to speak now since some some no longer
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with TA. But along with lot's been the corruption and
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the problems in Mexico. Is we have the information. The
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pipeline of information, how it flows into Mexico to the
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law enforcement and to the folks that are supporting us
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is very restrictive now, especially within the last five years,
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very very restrictive. Where we had vetted teams throughout Mexico
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and we still do. There's a lot of you know,
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Mexico's beautiful country, a lot of great people who really
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trying to make it safer and and and and you
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know better, and they want to get rid of this garbage.
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But the problem is that the option and the controls
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they have really make it hard for us to disseminate
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information to the people that can really use it. You know,
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I think earlier this year, or actually earlier twenty twenty four,
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Rutgers and a couple other organizations were looking at numbers
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just to give you an idea of what I'm talking about.
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They wrote, they wrote, you can google this, They wrote
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a couple of things on it. We were giving them
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information on labs, fentanyl labs, and it was like eighty
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some are almost not almost close to ninety percent of
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the labs that we gave them information on when they
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actually went to go get them were inactive I can
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tell you we the US law enforcements not giving bad information.
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You know, sometimes you know, informants or information gets stale.
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I get it, but it just doesn't make any sense.
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I mean, almost ninety percent of the information we're giving
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them is no good. No, we wouldn't be wasting our
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time like that.
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So what does that mean there's someone leaking info? Or
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as you said, just there's the corruption.
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Yeah, I mean that's the concern, right, I mean, yeah,
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it really is, because because now when when when information
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goes down and it gets funneled a certain way, there's
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certain offices in Mexico that take that information and they
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decide how it's going to get disseminated. And the problem
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is is we can't trust that process. You know, I'm
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not saying every bit of it's corrupt, but but there
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are people who we know have been compromised. So when
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that information is just thrown down earth is generalized and
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then people get to decide what gets disseminated and where
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it gets disseminated, we lose control of that. And when
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we lose control that, what do we get? We get
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ninety percent inactive labs. That's crazy, right, And that's just
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one example. I mean, there's that that's that's been part
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of the problem. That's and that's why it's going to
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be interesting really to see how Trump deals with Shimbam
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and you know, the tariffs and all the different talk.
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You know what, what leveraged can that possibly give the
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US to be more effective and have them target there.
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Well, what's more, it's more interesting, since you brought that up,
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is the current labeling all these cartels as actual foreign
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terrorist organizations, which now can involve the military, right Department
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of Defense. So that's where it's going to be very interesting,
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is how far they want to go to chase these
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people down and treat them as true terrorists. What's your
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opinion on that.
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I'm actually excited for that, and it really I think
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it just again it leverages. It gives us some leverage
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on our options. I mean, obviously, Mexico's a sovereign nation
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and we have to respect that. And I think that's
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concern is that, you know, we're just going to let
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our military run while out in Mexico and I don't.
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We've got to figure out that partnership in that, right.
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Yeah, there is absolutely a partnership in that, and I
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think that's what this does. It enhances our ability to
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broaden that partnership and actually get some work done. You know,
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their position seems to be, at least publicly as hey,
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we're going to take care of this problem, and we're
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going to be more aggressive on this. And actually I
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just read in the Intel bullets in this morning they've
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they've certainly ramped up their enforcement efforts in Mexico over
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the last couple of months. And you got to wonder
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if that's because of the the fear of the tariffs
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and and some of the other economic pressure.
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Uh.
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I mean, for those of you who don't for those
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people who don't know, I mean Mexico, their number one
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trading partner is the United States. It used to be China,
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it's now the United States. So you got a lot
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of big companies, a lot of people that are calling
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the president and calling their politicians in Mexico saying, hey,
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you need to figure out how to play ball with
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with Trump rand or the US government because this this
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impacts our bottom line and and and that's the reality
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of it.
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Yeah, it can literally economically crush.
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Them absolutely, and and that's a concern. And I think
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and that's the leverage we have, and and and again,
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not to be political or but because I know again
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I know he's a polarizing figure, but but that's I
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think that's what he's doing. And I don't want to
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speak for him, but that's that's my sense. So that's
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that's that's the advantage some of the things that that
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he's doing.
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I agree with you. I think that's what he was
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using the tariffs for was literally a negotiation tactic. You know.
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I'm sure he's well aware that we do need our
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partners in our allies. I'm looking forward to hopefully seeing
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a real partnership between Mexico and the United States to
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try to stamp this issue out because if anything, it
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would help us align with Mexico and helping our ally
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eliminate the corruption within and that that would be what
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I would hope for, is to see them actually truly
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have the ability to live a life out under the
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thumb of, let's be honest, a terrorist organization.
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Yeah.
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I know people from Mexico that have family in Mexico
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and that you know, I get a little insights to
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what goes on and how the streets and certain towns
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are controlled, and it's no way for anyone to live really,
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isn't it's a sad state, one.
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Hundred percent agree with you. In such a beautiful country,
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and there's so many people down there who really truly
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do want to, you know, make a positive difference. But
381
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it's a struggle when you live in a you know,
382
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look at the number of politicians that are have been attacked,
383
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you know, look at the number of police officers you've
384
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lost their lives. I mean, it's it's it's scary, it is,
385
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it's a sad state of affairs, and it's unfortunate for
386
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the people there.
387
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Let's shift to the northern though, because how much, how
388
00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:06.680
how serious is the trafficking through through the Canadian border.
389
00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:11.240
Trafficking of fentanyl into the US from Canada isn't, from
390
00:20:11.319 --> 00:20:15.039
my perspective, a huge problem, certainly, not like it is
391
00:20:15.079 --> 00:20:20.519
from our southern border. Canada has some issues itself because
392
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of they've been very progressive in their drug laws, and
393
00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:25.680
it really is starting to bite them in the butt.
394
00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:27.599
You look at the super labs and the amount of
395
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fentanyl seizures in Canada and the problem that they're having
396
00:20:31.480 --> 00:20:36.160
in Canada, uh is, gosh, it's it's it's getting out
397
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of hand, just like it is in the United States.
398
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As far as that those drugs being smuggled into the US,
399
00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:46.039
I haven't seen any significant numbers, certainly, not like we
400
00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:47.200
do on the southern border.
401
00:20:47.240 --> 00:20:48.960
The most of it is staying in Canada.
402
00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:52.640
Yeah, they they they're I mean Mexico has a problem
403
00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:56.279
with with fentanyl as well. I mean, I think of
404
00:20:56.359 --> 00:20:58.599
report just came out like Tijuana is losing like ten
405
00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:01.759
people a day to over is just Tijuana. I mean
406
00:21:01.799 --> 00:21:06.200
that's just one little city, right and Canada is having
407
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:10.079
a tenfold that problem. They're they're really really struggled.
408
00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:13.160
I know they went through a crazy, uh crazy problem
409
00:21:13.160 --> 00:21:16.160
with methamphetamines too, with meth in general. Once the Hell's
410
00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:18.680
Angels took hold of that area up there for a
411
00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:21.480
long time and a couple of other biker gangs were
412
00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:23.960
dug in and starting to get in, you know, expand
413
00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:26.359
that market out there. So I know that that happened
414
00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:29.640
years back. Is a lot of the drugs though, because
415
00:21:29.720 --> 00:21:31.880
is this true? Is a lot of drugs getting there?
416
00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:33.559
Like the cartels if they're supplying US, why are they
417
00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:35.400
not supplying casts or are there are they coming through
418
00:21:35.480 --> 00:21:40.400
America and smuggling stuff across our border into Canada. Is
419
00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:42.880
that is that a true statement? Is that's what that's happening.
420
00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:46.200
Yeah, there there are There are cartel involvement in Canada
421
00:21:46.720 --> 00:21:50.839
as well. Absolutely, and they also have a problem with
422
00:21:50.920 --> 00:21:54.400
chemicals coming into Canada. And and like you said, the labs,
423
00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:57.400
we're seeing more manu the most manufacturing of fetanyl's O
424
00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:01.440
curring in Mexico. We've certainly seen an increase in Canada.
425
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:03.680
But yeah, I mean they're they're they're having the same
426
00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:08.000
issues and challenges that we are not at the scale
427
00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:10.359
yet that that we have. I mean, it's unprecedented in
428
00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:12.920
the US. Durd demand for drugs is out of hand here,
429
00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:18.039
but they are certainly are having problems as well. Unfortunately.
430
00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:22.119
Yeah, sod one of those drug issues really become big,
431
00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:23.720
was it pretty much like in the mid to late
432
00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:26.880
eighties with the cocaine craze.
433
00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:29.759
Well, it really depends on I mean, if you if
434
00:22:29.799 --> 00:22:33.559
opioid specific was really the nineteen nineties opioids, Yeah, I
435
00:22:33.559 --> 00:22:35.880
mean we we we had an opioid problem in the
436
00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:39.240
in the eighteen hundreds in the United States following the
437
00:22:39.240 --> 00:22:43.160
Civil War, and if if you really dive into our
438
00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:46.160
history that was the first time we saw widespread addiction.
439
00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:49.920
I mean, we were using morphine and opium for for
440
00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:53.279
everything during the Civil War and and and that caused
441
00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:56.960
widespread addiction. And after the war, those soldiers took that
442
00:22:57.079 --> 00:22:59.400
back to their you know, their homes, their communities, and
443
00:22:59.559 --> 00:23:02.640
we never anything like that before, and we continued to
444
00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:05.000
use it because there wasn't any regulation. There wasn't any
445
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:09.200
you know, there wasn't it wasn't anything preventing that that
446
00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:12.400
widespread abuse, and it just got worse and worse and worse.
447
00:23:12.440 --> 00:23:16.000
And the early nineteen hundreds we started to we started
448
00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:20.640
to clamp down on that. In fact, the first federal
449
00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:23.559
ban of drugs was opium, first time our government ever
450
00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:27.079
did that. And so from the year and then and
451
00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:29.720
then because of what happened during the Civil Civil War,
452
00:23:29.799 --> 00:23:33.599
we really turned away from pain management. I mean, we
453
00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:37.799
used opioids for pain. But if you had an opioid
454
00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:42.880
prescription from the early nineteen hundreds to nineteen ninety six,
455
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:47.160
we know the date you were probably dying. I'm not
456
00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:50.039
saying there wasn't some exceptions or people that you know
457
00:23:50.079 --> 00:23:52.559
that that fooled the system. But if you had an
458
00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:56.480
oploid prescription, it was. It wasn't subjective. It was probably objective.
459
00:23:56.519 --> 00:23:58.279
I meaning like the doctor could look at you and
460
00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:00.279
see that your arm was an eight different direction, that
461
00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:01.960
you were probably in pain. You couldn't just go in
462
00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:04.519
there and say my back hurts and walk away with
463
00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:07.680
a thirty day script of hydrocodone. Again, I know there's
464
00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:09.519
some exceptions, but for the most part, that's how we
465
00:24:09.559 --> 00:24:13.000
treated pain management. And there was this big, big push
466
00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:15.000
in the United States to change that. And we now
467
00:24:15.079 --> 00:24:17.799
know that that was the pharmaceutical industry was behind that,
468
00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:20.440
and Purdue was the big, the big one, and they
469
00:24:20.440 --> 00:24:22.200
weren't alone, but they were the big one, and there
470
00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:25.279
was million dollars, millions and millions of dollars into this
471
00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:28.960
campaign change the way that we that we treated pain.
472
00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:32.480
And they would tell doctors say, hey, we need to
473
00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:36.079
you know, we've advanced as a society since the Civil
474
00:24:36.079 --> 00:24:39.039
War and the research is clear now that this isn't
475
00:24:39.039 --> 00:24:43.640
as addictive and and they were just beating this drum
476
00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:46.440
for ten twenty years and it worked. In nineteen ninety six,
477
00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:49.400
we added pain as a fifth vital sign, and at
478
00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:51.559
the same time they said, oh, when we have the
479
00:24:51.599 --> 00:24:54.559
pill for you, oxyconton. And it's interesting if you read
480
00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:56.720
some of the Foyer and Sunshine laws and all the
481
00:24:56.920 --> 00:24:58.400
some of the some of the things that have come
482
00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:01.160
out now, you know, and only Purdue was talking about
483
00:25:01.160 --> 00:25:03.880
how this was going to be for terminal cancer patients,
484
00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:06.759
but they agreed that that that pool of people is
485
00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:08.400
too small, and then all of a sudden it was
486
00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:11.200
going to be for everyone, right, And that's exactly what
487
00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:13.400
they did, is they marketed for everyone, and they did
488
00:25:13.400 --> 00:25:15.079
it under the guys at less than one percent of
489
00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:17.400
people will become addicted, and we know that's not true.
490
00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:20.519
It's the name of prophet, really it was. I mean,
491
00:25:20.599 --> 00:25:23.920
we went we had a pill that I think it
492
00:25:23.960 --> 00:25:27.359
took them, you know, three or four years after it
493
00:25:27.400 --> 00:25:30.440
was released. They were they were spending two or three
494
00:25:30.519 --> 00:25:33.480
hundred million dollars a year just on marketing. It was incredible.
495
00:25:33.480 --> 00:25:35.799
And this was a thirty five billion dollar pill. And
496
00:25:35.839 --> 00:25:37.839
again they weren't alone, but this was a big one.
497
00:25:38.200 --> 00:25:39.920
And then you look at what that did. I mean,
498
00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:42.079
we went from think about that, from from the early
499
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:45.279
nineteen hundreds to nineteen ninety six, if you had an opioid,
500
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:50.519
you were statistically speaking, probably dying, you know, and then
501
00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:53.359
we went from no, they're safe. So in nineteen ninety
502
00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:57.160
six on, you had your WISDM teeth taken out, you
503
00:25:57.200 --> 00:25:59.960
probably went home with thirty sixty ninety pills, no questions asked.
504
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:03.359
Your kid hurt their arm throwing baseball in the little
505
00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:06.079
league game, he probably went home with thirty sixty ninety pills,
506
00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:08.240
no question to ask. And then they were going after
507
00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:12.720
the doctors who were who were concerned about this potential
508
00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:15.400
problem of over prescribing, and they would they would threaten
509
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:18.519
their licenses. And then the government started looking at this
510
00:26:18.680 --> 00:26:20.960
and they started forming the you know, Congress would form
511
00:26:21.039 --> 00:26:22.799
these committees and they'd have these doctors on there. And
512
00:26:22.839 --> 00:26:24.319
we now know a lot of these doctors on these51300:26:24.319 --> 00:26:27.559
committees were paid for by and by purdueing the other51400:26:27.599 --> 00:26:32.279
pharmaceutical companies. So to give you an idea, by twenty twelve,51500:26:33.039 --> 00:26:36.200
I think it was eighty one. It was eighty one prescriptions.51600:26:36.359 --> 00:26:39.359
Eighty one or eighty two prescriptions per one hundred people,51700:26:39.440 --> 00:26:41.640
not one hundred thousand, not a million, but per one51800:26:41.680 --> 00:26:46.119
hundred people. So eighty one prescriptions per one hundred people.51900:26:46.240 --> 00:26:49.599
Opioid prescriptions. I mean, we were it was literally we're52000:26:49.640 --> 00:26:50.759
just giving it up for Nyasy.52100:26:50.799 --> 00:26:53.839
Out of every hundred, out of every group of one hundred,52200:26:53.839 --> 00:26:55.680
there was eighty one people on opioids.52300:26:56.200 --> 00:26:59.599
There were eighty one prescriptions. Yeah for eighty one prescriptions, Yeah, prescriptions.52400:27:00.039 --> 00:27:01.839
And to give you an idea, right now, it's come52500:27:01.880 --> 00:27:03.559
down quite a bit. Right now, I think the national52600:27:03.559 --> 00:27:05.880
average is about thirty seven and a half per one52700:27:05.960 --> 00:27:09.240
hundred people. And so one of the things I look at,52800:27:09.400 --> 00:27:11.599
especially when I travel, is I look at the counties,52900:27:11.640 --> 00:27:14.240
and you know what counties are suffering the most, because53000:27:14.279 --> 00:27:17.079
we do see a correlation of high opioid use, legal53100:27:17.079 --> 00:27:20.559
opioid use to people turning to the illegal market. And53200:27:20.559 --> 00:27:22.880
that's exactly what happened in the nineteen nineties when we53300:27:22.920 --> 00:27:25.440
when we were giving opioids out like it was candy,53400:27:25.880 --> 00:27:29.000
and we saw more and more opioids out there. You53500:27:29.000 --> 00:27:31.319
know a lot of doctors are like, WHOA, this is crazy.53600:27:31.319 --> 00:27:33.160
We've been We've been liied to, We've been we've been53700:27:33.200 --> 00:27:35.839
fooled by by purduing these other country companies. We can't53800:27:35.880 --> 00:27:37.359
just give this stuff out. We gotta a little more53900:27:37.400 --> 00:27:40.079
responsible than this. So they started to wean some of54000:27:40.119 --> 00:27:43.440
their patients or even just go cold Turkey, and a54100:27:43.440 --> 00:27:46.400
lot of these these patients would would uh would just54200:27:46.440 --> 00:27:48.240
go to other doctors. And that's when we saw the54300:27:48.240 --> 00:27:50.839
pill mills pop up. That's when we see the people54400:27:51.039 --> 00:27:52.680
get in their vehicles and they would just drive around54500:27:52.720 --> 00:27:54.519
the whole regions and they would just get many pills54600:27:54.559 --> 00:27:57.079
as they could, and then if they couldn't, they turned54700:27:57.079 --> 00:28:00.680
to the street for for for for heroin. So we54800:28:00.720 --> 00:28:03.359
saw a huge spike and haroin. We hadn't seen that54900:28:03.359 --> 00:28:05.680
type of spike and hair win since since the Vietnam War.55000:28:06.599 --> 00:28:08.240
And then that's how fentanyl came in.55100:28:08.359 --> 00:28:10.799
So can we use there's an assumption, by the way,55200:28:10.880 --> 00:28:12.960
But from whatever all the information you give me, does55300:28:13.000 --> 00:28:16.480
it does it not sound like the cartels are part55400:28:16.480 --> 00:28:19.279
of the problem. But the bigger problem to addiction is55500:28:20.119 --> 00:28:23.440
internally and kind of fueled or started to be or55600:28:23.559 --> 00:28:27.799
was started by the big farmer corporations because they, I mean,55700:28:27.839 --> 00:28:30.240
I would say they they knew they were peddling something addictive.55800:28:31.039 --> 00:28:33.039
They had to. I mean, the more you give someone,55900:28:33.200 --> 00:28:35.200
if they like it, they're gonna they're gonna want more56000:28:35.200 --> 00:28:35.480
of it.56100:28:35.839 --> 00:28:38.319
Yeah, and I agree, and let me let me let56200:28:38.359 --> 00:28:40.839
me say this real quick yeah, I have a problem56300:28:40.839 --> 00:28:43.119
with the pharmaceutical industry. I have a problem with the cartails.56400:28:43.119 --> 00:28:45.240
I have a problem with China. But we do need56500:28:45.279 --> 00:28:46.920
to reduce the demand because at the end of the day,56600:28:46.920 --> 00:28:49.119
it is our demand that that fuels them and that56700:28:49.240 --> 00:28:52.039
and that allows them to be successful and exploit these people.56800:28:52.599 --> 00:28:55.240
But to your question, yeah, absolutely, I mean we we56900:28:55.319 --> 00:28:58.119
had an industry that that became billion.57000:28:58.599 --> 00:29:01.000
Who created the demand though, like we had if we57100:29:01.039 --> 00:29:03.839
had to say where it started, how was that demand created?57200:29:04.279 --> 00:29:06.920
They created the demand. I mean when we went from57300:29:07.160 --> 00:29:10.400
from when we added pain as a fifth final sign57400:29:10.640 --> 00:29:14.519
and they started to give thirty sixty ninety pills, no57500:29:14.680 --> 00:29:17.480
questions asked for just the I mean you ever been57600:29:17.519 --> 00:29:19.160
by a pill mill. I mean we used to work57700:29:19.160 --> 00:29:21.480
those all the time at DA and you know, they'd57800:29:21.519 --> 00:29:23.319
open up at let's say seven in the morning and57900:29:23.359 --> 00:29:25.720
buy five thirty. You'd have a one hundred people waiting58000:29:25.720 --> 00:29:29.880
in line, you know, And I could tell you tons58100:29:29.880 --> 00:29:32.119
of cases investigations we worked. I mean, we had we58200:29:32.160 --> 00:29:34.680
had a bad guy who was putting homeless people on58300:29:34.799 --> 00:29:37.599
buses and he'd take these people to the pill mills.58400:29:37.599 --> 00:29:39.519
They'd go in there and they'd fake you know, my58500:29:39.599 --> 00:29:43.039
back hurts, my knee hurts. Whatever. They'd get these scripts,58600:29:43.160 --> 00:29:45.160
no questions asked, you know, they just pay their twenty58700:29:45.160 --> 00:29:48.359
five thirty dollars copay and then they would they would58800:29:48.400 --> 00:29:51.359
be bused to a pharmacy and they would fill these58900:29:51.400 --> 00:29:54.119
scripts and then they would be paid twenty thirty bucks59000:29:54.240 --> 00:29:56.839
or maybe a bottle liquor or something. And I mean59100:29:56.880 --> 00:30:00.000
this was widespread abuse, and it still happens a little bit,59200:30:00.119 --> 00:30:03.839
but yeah, it absolutely fueled in nineteen nineties. I mean,59300:30:03.880 --> 00:30:06.319
they were out of control. I mean it was it59400:30:06.400 --> 00:30:10.000
wasn't until twenty twelve that we actually twenty thirteen when59500:30:10.039 --> 00:30:14.880
our government actually declared legal opioids a crisis, you know,59600:30:14.880 --> 00:30:16.839
twenty thirteen, and no one even knows that.59700:30:17.519 --> 00:30:21.240
So it sounds like that was the gateway basically, like59800:30:21.680 --> 00:30:23.680
everything that happened and how it was handled by the59900:30:23.680 --> 00:30:27.079
pharmaceutical industry, well, the companies that were involved in pushing60000:30:27.079 --> 00:30:30.640
opioids anyway, That's what it sounds like. That's what got60100:30:30.680 --> 00:30:35.319
people to start seeking and craving other illicit and illegal60200:30:35.400 --> 00:30:38.200
drugs for their own use, because once it was shut off,60300:30:38.240 --> 00:30:40.039
like hey, you know, law, get a prescription for this now,60400:30:40.039 --> 00:30:43.119
you've got to seek another solution to your addiction. Then60500:30:43.400 --> 00:30:46.799
enters you know the increase in legal drug use and distribution?60600:30:47.720 --> 00:30:49.359
Am I connecting the dots there correctly?60700:30:50.079 --> 00:30:55.079
Yes, sir, Absolutely, we saw a substantial increase in heroin use,60800:30:55.119 --> 00:30:59.000
and we know there's been a lot of research. At60900:30:59.119 --> 00:31:04.000
least eighty percent of heroin users started with legal opioid prescriptions.61000:31:04.960 --> 00:31:08.160
Let me repeat that, eighty percent or more of heroin61100:31:08.279 --> 00:31:11.799
users started with a legal opioid prescription.61200:31:12.000 --> 00:31:14.119
I think that's one of the most important things you've61300:31:14.160 --> 00:31:17.319
said so far as far as it relates to the61400:31:17.759 --> 00:31:19.920
drug demand and use in the United States. And I61500:31:19.960 --> 00:31:23.400
llegal drugs. And what's crazy is when you when you61600:31:23.400 --> 00:31:27.200
were given the history on this earlier, the reality is,61700:31:27.480 --> 00:31:30.559
how is it okay? How does our administration think it's61800:31:30.720 --> 00:31:35.440
okay to market and advertise prescription drug drugs on TV61900:31:35.559 --> 00:31:38.480
and radio and other media. The average person has no62000:31:38.519 --> 00:31:40.960
idea what these things do. It's just associating the name62100:31:40.960 --> 00:31:42.759
of their heads. So when they go to the doctor like, oh,62200:31:42.799 --> 00:31:45.000
I heard this might cure this. Can you please give62300:31:45.000 --> 00:31:47.599
this to me? Isn't that ridiculous?62400:31:48.200 --> 00:31:49.799
I agreed. Let me throw another one at you. This62500:31:49.839 --> 00:31:53.359
is an opioid related, but it's the same problem. You've62600:31:53.400 --> 00:31:55.519
heard we have an adderall shortage in the United States.62700:31:55.680 --> 00:31:57.480
I heard something about the kay we don't have a62800:31:57.480 --> 00:31:59.240
short shortage. We can't meet the demand.62900:31:59.319 --> 00:31:59.960
Is that what it is?63000:32:00.039 --> 00:32:02.920
They can't be fast enough. So here you look at63100:32:02.920 --> 00:32:04.920
the pharmaceutical industry and what they did in the nineteen63200:32:05.000 --> 00:32:07.720
nineties and really prior to the nineteen nineties when they63300:32:07.759 --> 00:32:10.440
were orchestrating this event to change the way we dealt63400:32:10.480 --> 00:32:13.519
with pain. They have been telling us for the last63500:32:13.519 --> 00:32:18.920
ten twenty years that our kids need stimulants, you know,63600:32:19.000 --> 00:32:22.200
in this medicine. And if you look at the numbers63700:32:22.240 --> 00:32:25.200
and you start going into high school, middle school, elementary school,63800:32:26.319 --> 00:32:29.160
it's incredible that like you see these slide increases of63900:32:29.200 --> 00:32:31.920
people using these stimulants, kids using these stimulants, and now64000:32:31.960 --> 00:32:35.759
this they've spiked substantially. I mean monitoring the future study64100:32:35.759 --> 00:32:39.240
which is which is a huge study out of University64200:32:39.279 --> 00:32:42.000
of Michigan. I'm doing it probably twenty five thirty years.64300:32:42.680 --> 00:32:45.279
Last year I think was fifteen percent of high school64400:32:45.279 --> 00:32:49.880
seniors now say they're under some medical stimulant from a doctor.64500:32:50.240 --> 00:32:52.119
Fifteen percent. And then when you again when you go64600:32:52.119 --> 00:32:56.799
into middle school, in elementary school, it's increased substantially, and64700:32:56.839 --> 00:32:59.440
it doesn't make sense. I mean, I don't study statistics,64800:32:59.440 --> 00:33:01.759
but I do know that. You know, with statistics, there's64900:33:01.759 --> 00:33:04.839
a there's a there's a an average arrange I figure65000:33:04.880 --> 00:33:06.359
what they call that. And then when you look when65100:33:06.400 --> 00:33:09.119
you see those those spikes, you look at them, why65200:33:09.119 --> 00:33:11.240
are those spike? And then we're seeing.65300:33:10.960 --> 00:33:13.000
That, Yeah, well, you're what you do is you start65400:33:13.039 --> 00:33:16.240
to correlate the data. I mean you're correlating the data.65500:33:16.400 --> 00:33:19.359
And then after that, outside of correlating the data, you65600:33:19.400 --> 00:33:22.640
start to recognize patterns and so that that's that's what65700:33:22.680 --> 00:33:25.599
you're seeing is in these reports. It's like, hold on,65800:33:25.920 --> 00:33:29.119
there's a correlation here. Let me see. Uh, there's more65900:33:29.160 --> 00:33:33.319
adderall or whatever types of drugs being prescribed, more demand66000:33:33.359 --> 00:33:36.359
for this drug that drug, and you're seeing the spikes66100:33:36.359 --> 00:33:38.359
on these reports, like, yeah, there's a correlation there. There's66200:33:38.359 --> 00:33:41.880
something going on. This is absolutely connected. So it's crazy66300:33:41.920 --> 00:33:43.839
that we have this data and yet we don't really66400:33:43.839 --> 00:33:46.599
do anything about it, or on the surface, it doesn't66500:33:46.599 --> 00:33:47.480
look that way anyway.66600:33:48.039 --> 00:33:50.920
No, I agree, And what's interesting is is we're supposed66700:33:50.960 --> 00:33:52.480
to use this data. Like one of the things DEA66800:33:52.559 --> 00:33:53.920
does A lot of people don't know this is they66900:33:53.920 --> 00:33:57.640
have what we call quotas and and working with the FDA,67000:33:57.799 --> 00:34:01.000
DEA regulates the amount of drug drugs. And I've never67100:34:01.079 --> 00:34:05.039
worked in this section, so hopeful I'm not messing up67200:34:05.079 --> 00:34:07.759
the description of this. But basically what they do is67300:34:07.960 --> 00:34:12.400
they monitor and they regulate the amount of the drugs67400:34:12.480 --> 00:34:17.440
that are pharmaceutical company manufacturers. And like I said, we67500:34:17.519 --> 00:34:20.760
can no longer meet the demand of adderall. So people67600:34:20.800 --> 00:34:23.440
were freaking out, like where's our adderalls or adderall? So67700:34:23.679 --> 00:34:25.360
what do they do? They go to their congressmen, and67800:34:25.360 --> 00:34:27.719
they go to their senators, and then they come to67900:34:27.800 --> 00:34:30.159
DA and say, hey, you need to increase your quotas.68000:34:30.519 --> 00:34:32.800
And if you follow the money again, this goes right68100:34:32.840 --> 00:34:36.039
back to the pharmaceutical industry, and they are putting a68200:34:36.079 --> 00:34:39.119
lot of pressure on their senators and congressmen to tell68300:34:39.239 --> 00:34:41.199
DA and the FDA and the federal government, hey, you68400:34:41.239 --> 00:34:44.079
need to increase the manufacturing numbers. And that's exactly what68500:34:44.199 --> 00:34:46.079
we've did. So if you look at the number of68600:34:47.920 --> 00:34:50.320
let me time myself out for just a second. I68700:34:50.440 --> 00:34:52.199
know there are kids out there who need certain things.68800:34:52.239 --> 00:34:53.880
I get it. I'm not telling people how to parent,68900:34:54.480 --> 00:34:56.679
but it doesn't make sense when you look at the69000:34:56.760 --> 00:34:59.840
overall numbers. We are feed our kids drugs and an69100:34:59.840 --> 00:35:03.039
earth earlier age these stimulates and it's already having impact.69200:35:03.559 --> 00:35:07.639
I work with law enforcement every state, and the number69300:35:07.639 --> 00:35:10.039
of narcotic agents who've told me that, hey, we've already69400:35:10.039 --> 00:35:13.119
seen an increase in methamphetamine and cocaine arrests from young people.69500:35:14.119 --> 00:35:17.400
If you look at the number of people dying from psychostimulants,69600:35:17.480 --> 00:35:21.559
cocaine and methamphetamine, it's increased, and sadly, I think it's69700:35:21.599 --> 00:35:23.880
going to continue to increase, especially for our young people.69800:35:24.559 --> 00:35:26.599
The same thing, it really pisses me out. The same69900:35:26.679 --> 00:35:29.320
thing that happened in the nineteen nineties with the pharmaceutical70000:35:29.320 --> 00:35:35.519
industry targeting opioids happen with psychostimulants and we just let70100:35:35.599 --> 00:35:38.519
it happen. And that's a trend in the next five70200:35:38.599 --> 00:35:40.480
ten years, people like me are going to be talking70300:35:40.519 --> 00:35:43.400
about in schools and you know, after the fact, because70400:35:43.760 --> 00:35:46.519
you know, we're a react to society. We're never proactive.70500:35:47.360 --> 00:35:49.400
I've said that more than once. I agree with you.70600:35:49.480 --> 00:35:53.280
We are way too reactive, way too reactive. So even70700:35:53.360 --> 00:35:56.519
if we get the cartels are an issue regardless. I70800:35:56.559 --> 00:35:59.960
mean it's everything from sex, trafficking, violence, you name, everything else,70900:36:00.000 --> 00:36:01.719
not just drugs. So we do got to get a71000:36:01.760 --> 00:36:03.719
handle on that. But it sounds like our drug issue71100:36:03.800 --> 00:36:07.159
is not going to really make a difference until we71200:36:07.480 --> 00:36:10.159
change how we handle the pharmaceutical industry and the medical71300:36:10.159 --> 00:36:14.679
industry in general when it comes to these addictive prescription drugs.71400:36:15.880 --> 00:36:18.719
Yeah, and that's a challenge because that's where the money is.71500:36:18.840 --> 00:36:21.599
It's I mean, you look, you know, we talked about71600:36:21.599 --> 00:36:23.679
the opioid crisis, and I told you about like, you know,71700:36:23.760 --> 00:36:27.039
OxyContin and how by twenty twelve we hit like eighty71800:36:27.280 --> 00:36:31.000
eighty two prescriptions per one hundred people. We here in71900:36:31.079 --> 00:36:34.440
twenty sixteen Congress passes and it was pretty much an72000:36:34.480 --> 00:36:37.719
anonymous bill. I mean, both Republicans and Democrats supported it,72100:36:38.400 --> 00:36:39.760
and I forget the name of the bill, but it72200:36:39.840 --> 00:36:42.840
was it was basically to make DEA's job harder to72300:36:42.960 --> 00:36:46.960
go after suspicious drug suppliers. And this was and if72400:36:47.000 --> 00:36:49.840
you follow the money, it was the pharm seal clindustry72500:36:50.320 --> 00:36:52.960
that puts money in both both parties pockets and this72600:36:53.079 --> 00:36:55.920
was in twenty sixteen. We already had a problem in.72700:36:55.960 --> 00:36:58.360
This crazy So they're putting money in their pockets, but72800:36:58.400 --> 00:37:01.559
it's considered lobbying, right quotes for people who aren't watching us,72900:37:01.599 --> 00:37:06.320
So it's lobbying, and they're able to influence policy by lobbying, right,73000:37:06.800 --> 00:37:09.880
And you can't go after them because the company is73100:37:10.039 --> 00:37:12.679
its own entity, which is kind of its own person.73200:37:12.840 --> 00:37:15.079
So you're not really directly going after the people making73300:37:15.119 --> 00:37:18.239
the actual decisions unless you can all recal I guess, right,73400:37:18.880 --> 00:37:21.719
correlate their actions to what's going on in the company.73500:37:21.840 --> 00:37:24.199
Is that right? Am I on the right path there?73600:37:24.840 --> 00:37:29.320
Yeah? You're absolutely. Yeah. It's it's frustrating, it really is. Yeah.73700:37:30.159 --> 00:37:32.920
It's like it's like when they were convenient committees and73800:37:33.000 --> 00:37:34.800
they put these doctors together, and we now know that73900:37:34.880 --> 00:37:37.119
a significant number of these doctors were bought and paid for,74000:37:37.960 --> 00:37:39.800
you know, by the by the companies that they were74100:37:40.119 --> 00:37:43.159
there to talk about. I mean, that's what kind of74200:37:43.320 --> 00:37:45.239
conflict of your interest is that at the end of74300:37:45.280 --> 00:37:48.239
the day. I just don't know how people can go74400:37:48.360 --> 00:37:50.280
to bed at night, you know, how do they look74500:37:50.280 --> 00:37:52.079
in themselves in the mirror and then and then close74600:37:52.119 --> 00:37:54.599
their eyes and think, man, what are we doing? I mean,74700:37:54.760 --> 00:37:58.000
the greed and the it's just disgusting and that that's74800:37:58.039 --> 00:38:01.480
something that really just quite frankly pisses me off as74900:38:01.519 --> 00:38:02.000
well well.75000:38:02.039 --> 00:38:05.199
And that and so when when Scheinbaum said, you know,75100:38:05.719 --> 00:38:07.840
President Mexico, when she made that statement, people hate it.75200:38:07.880 --> 00:38:11.199
It's like all over acts everywhere, especially especially the hard75300:38:11.320 --> 00:38:13.920
right conservatives, were like, how dare she say that the75400:38:14.000 --> 00:38:15.760
only way we can hand the cartels are one way75500:38:15.800 --> 00:38:19.039
is to decrease the demand in the United States, like75600:38:19.119 --> 00:38:21.039
we're craving it, so that's why it's being sold. So75700:38:21.199 --> 00:38:24.199
she is spot on that in that statement. But you know,75800:38:24.239 --> 00:38:27.599
it's not the it's not the complete answer, but she75900:38:27.880 --> 00:38:28.880
is correct.76000:38:29.800 --> 00:38:32.440
You, No, it is a holistic answer, right, Like you said,76100:38:32.480 --> 00:38:34.719
I mean, we gotta we gotta take we gotta we76200:38:34.800 --> 00:38:39.159
gotta have some challenge, challenging questions and discussions within our76300:38:39.199 --> 00:38:42.679
own country and our own pharmaceuical industry and and a76400:38:42.719 --> 00:38:44.320
lot of things, not just them. You know, I know76500:38:44.400 --> 00:38:47.000
we're picking on them, but I also agree with the76600:38:47.039 --> 00:38:49.199
fact that we knew we need to reduce the demand.76700:38:49.239 --> 00:38:51.719
I mean, look at the global population of the world.76800:38:52.159 --> 00:38:54.800
The US is about four or maybe four and a76900:38:54.840 --> 00:38:58.000
half percent of the global population. The entire world population.77000:38:58.119 --> 00:39:00.519
We only represent four and a half percent, let's say.77100:39:01.360 --> 00:39:04.159
Yet we consume the most amount of drugs in the world. Yeah,77200:39:04.239 --> 00:39:06.400
and you can look at study after study after ste.77300:39:06.639 --> 00:39:08.679
We are the market, right, We're the global market.77400:39:09.000 --> 00:39:11.800
We are the market. And people can say, oh, you're77500:39:11.920 --> 00:39:16.400
thinking of third world countries. No, USC did a study77600:39:16.480 --> 00:39:20.199
back in twenty nineteen and they looked at just first77700:39:20.239 --> 00:39:24.599
world countries, you know, the England, Germany, Italy, Australia, just77800:39:25.039 --> 00:39:28.800
the big countries. Right, Your chances from dying from drugs77900:39:29.400 --> 00:39:32.119
are three times greater than those countries, the two lowest78000:39:32.159 --> 00:39:34.400
in the world, Italy and Japan. Your chances from dying78100:39:34.440 --> 00:39:37.039
from drugs in the US twenty seven times greater than78200:39:37.079 --> 00:39:39.760
those two countries. Your chances are from dying from drugs78300:39:39.760 --> 00:39:42.159
in the US by age fifty greater than any of78400:39:42.199 --> 00:39:45.119
those countries. I mean, we have to reduce the demand.78500:39:45.239 --> 00:39:50.639
So in a started by our own health care industry,78600:39:50.760 --> 00:39:52.719
for example, hooking our own people on this.78700:39:53.000 --> 00:39:56.320
Yeah, that was certainly certainly didn't hurt.78800:39:56.360 --> 00:39:57.880
That's a blunt way to say it, but I mean78900:39:58.119 --> 00:39:59.559
that's what it is right.79000:40:00.159 --> 00:40:03.840
Yeah, yeah, I mean a lot of people were exploiting79100:40:04.119 --> 00:40:04.519
from with it.79200:40:04.960 --> 00:40:06.320
Let me let me be clear, I'm not I'm not79300:40:06.440 --> 00:40:09.400
saying that every doctor's bad like I'm with I'm not79400:40:09.519 --> 00:40:12.039
saying that. But if you're looking at the facts and79500:40:12.159 --> 00:40:16.159
data in all of all the years, you know, all79600:40:16.199 --> 00:40:18.119
of it back to when you were talking about the79700:40:18.159 --> 00:40:21.000
nineties and et cetera, it all leads back to that,79800:40:21.559 --> 00:40:24.199
it really does, and the greed of the people who79900:40:24.239 --> 00:40:27.320
are making the policy decisions. It's insane.80000:40:27.840 --> 00:40:30.079
I don't I don't disagree with you. I I that's80100:40:30.199 --> 00:40:33.760
it is insane, And that's the ethical and moral issues80200:40:33.800 --> 00:40:37.519
there that that's that's what That's what really bothers me.80300:40:37.559 --> 00:40:40.599
I know there's criminal activity, but but how do people again,80400:40:40.679 --> 00:40:42.119
how do they how do they look themselves in the80500:40:42.360 --> 00:40:42.880
in the mirror?80600:40:42.920 --> 00:40:45.320
And do you know if do you know of anything80700:40:45.360 --> 00:40:50.400
that's being done now to help with that situation with80800:40:50.559 --> 00:40:54.159
our prescription with our prescription drug problem. Are are they80900:40:54.199 --> 00:40:56.719
still focusing on that? Is that still something that's being81000:40:57.400 --> 00:40:59.480
looked at or did they kind of just step away81100:40:59.519 --> 00:41:01.800
from it after ninety six or seven and say, well,81200:41:01.840 --> 00:41:04.119
we kind of we did what we did now we're good.81300:41:05.360 --> 00:41:07.760
No, we once it hit its peak, which was twenty81400:41:07.960 --> 00:41:10.280
twelve and twenty thirteen, our government says, hey, we have81500:41:10.360 --> 00:41:14.039
a problem. So in twenty thirteen, yeah, so we've seen it.81600:41:14.280 --> 00:41:17.000
We started to regulate it more so we we've seen81700:41:17.039 --> 00:41:18.960
a significant increase. So we went from, like I said,81800:41:19.000 --> 00:41:22.199
around eighty one eighty two prescriptions per one hundred people81900:41:22.199 --> 00:41:25.079
to where we are now, which is thirty seven and82000:41:25.119 --> 00:41:27.079
a half. I believe as of twenty twenty four.82100:41:27.320 --> 00:41:29.320
Still a bit though it is.82200:41:29.480 --> 00:41:31.639
And then you know, like I said, when I travel,82300:41:31.679 --> 00:41:34.199
I actually look at the states that I travel in,82400:41:34.280 --> 00:41:39.119
and some some states are significantly high. And let's give82500:41:39.119 --> 00:41:41.360
you an example of the worst in the Well, the82600:41:42.360 --> 00:41:45.000
number one state in the United States for drug deaths82700:41:45.320 --> 00:41:47.719
is West Virginia. And if you look at the history82800:41:47.760 --> 00:41:49.840
of West Virginia, they were really ground zero for the82900:41:49.920 --> 00:41:53.039
OPIOAI crisis. So there is a correlation there. And then83000:41:53.039 --> 00:41:55.480
if you start diving into the counties in West Virginia,83100:41:56.239 --> 00:41:59.480
there were six counties that had over two hundred prescriptions83200:41:59.519 --> 00:42:03.320
per hundred people, two hundred plus prescriptions, and there's still83300:42:03.320 --> 00:42:06.119
a lot of they're still struggling in West Virginia with83400:42:07.239 --> 00:42:10.920
with overdoses and drug poisonings and and and legal opioids,83500:42:10.960 --> 00:42:13.679
and it's just it's it's going to take time.83600:42:13.960 --> 00:42:16.239
Is educating people enough though? I mean a lot of83700:42:16.239 --> 00:42:18.760
people say, well, if if you were educated, or if83800:42:18.760 --> 00:42:21.559
you're educated about how these drugs affect you, you wouldn't83900:42:21.840 --> 00:42:24.559
you wouldn't take them, or or you know, so easily84000:42:24.599 --> 00:42:27.440
take the prescription for example. Is that a true statement?84100:42:27.519 --> 00:42:28.320
Is education enough?84200:42:29.119 --> 00:42:30.760
Or or is it?84300:42:31.039 --> 00:42:33.280
I'm sorry to second part I forgot. I didn't mean84400:42:33.320 --> 00:42:36.239
to cut up sores. Here's the two part. Is education enough?84500:42:36.400 --> 00:42:39.000
And and two if they are educated, is it still84600:42:39.079 --> 00:42:41.719
enough to overcome the money behind the big farm in84700:42:41.760 --> 00:42:45.639
industry Because with all the advertisements and everything that's going84800:42:45.679 --> 00:42:49.719
on behind them peddling the drugs and associating it with84900:42:49.880 --> 00:42:54.719
this with its current with this current use case. Right,85000:42:55.039 --> 00:42:57.159
so I have a bad back, Hence I need to85100:42:57.280 --> 00:43:00.559
use brand a Right. So, is education enough? And is85200:43:00.599 --> 00:43:02.639
it enough to compete with the money that big forma has?85300:43:03.880 --> 00:43:05.679
I don't think it's enough on its own, but I85400:43:06.039 --> 00:43:10.039
certainly think it's an important uh in the in the solution.85500:43:11.119 --> 00:43:13.280
To me, this is a is not a complex solution.85600:43:13.400 --> 00:43:15.679
I think, I think it has to be a holistic85700:43:15.719 --> 00:43:17.639
I think it has to be different, you know. I85800:43:17.679 --> 00:43:20.159
think we we have to ramp up our our our85900:43:20.760 --> 00:43:26.840
efforts and our strategic focus on the two cartels. But86000:43:26.960 --> 00:43:30.920
I think the education part is is important. It's one86100:43:31.000 --> 00:43:33.719
thing that I've really dedicated you know, this portion of86200:43:33.760 --> 00:43:36.039
my life too, and it's why I started a nonprofit.86300:43:38.159 --> 00:43:42.400
I truly believe that information empowers people. I really do,86400:43:42.599 --> 00:43:45.239
especially young people. I know that we're going to be86500:43:45.280 --> 00:43:48.039
faced or I know that they're going to be faced86600:43:48.039 --> 00:43:50.199
with with a lot of decisions and and and sometimes86700:43:50.320 --> 00:43:52.039
you know, even with the right information, they're still going86800:43:52.119 --> 00:43:55.880
to make, you know, bad decisions. But it does work,86900:43:55.960 --> 00:43:57.880
and and there is a lot of research that says87000:43:57.920 --> 00:44:00.840
that people that have, especially young people, have the information87100:44:01.000 --> 00:44:05.239
are less likely not not no, but less likely to87200:44:05.360 --> 00:44:09.320
make those bad decisions. But on its own, no, I think.87300:44:09.400 --> 00:44:11.440
I again, I think we have to we have to87400:44:11.519 --> 00:44:15.199
approach us from from several different angles. And and like87500:44:15.320 --> 00:44:17.960
you said the second part of your question there, I mean,87600:44:18.440 --> 00:44:22.039
we're facing an industry that throws you know, billions of87700:44:22.119 --> 00:44:26.079
dollars and it's always, it's always that you look at smoking.87800:44:26.119 --> 00:44:27.639
I mean we we've made we made a lot of87900:44:27.679 --> 00:44:30.920
progress at smoking, especially for young people. And now I88000:44:31.000 --> 00:44:33.039
mean what did what did a lot of these companies88100:44:33.079 --> 00:44:36.119
do They turned their focus to like vaping and yeah,88200:44:36.159 --> 00:44:39.440
and in marijuana and things like that. So now we're88300:44:41.039 --> 00:44:46.239
we're starting the same thing with this new generation, trying88400:44:46.239 --> 00:44:48.360
to warn them just like we did back you know,88500:44:48.480 --> 00:44:50.199
twenty or thirty years ago on smoking.88600:44:50.360 --> 00:44:54.079
Right, and yeah, it's it's like these big pharma companies88700:44:54.159 --> 00:44:57.119
really have a huge hand and a social engineering or88800:44:57.639 --> 00:45:00.599
engineering of our culture. And I I think the I88900:45:00.639 --> 00:45:02.800
think the education part is important. I wanted your perspective89000:45:02.800 --> 00:45:04.920
on because the only way to change a culture or89100:45:05.039 --> 00:45:06.679
habit of culture is to start with the youth and89200:45:06.760 --> 00:45:09.119
then generationally, eventually you'll be able to make that change.89300:45:09.119 --> 00:45:11.480
So it's not gonna be overnight, but we've got to start.89400:45:11.519 --> 00:45:13.519
We've got to start and stick to the plan. Sounds89500:45:13.559 --> 00:45:15.800
like that's exactly what you're doing with with your two companies,89600:45:15.840 --> 00:45:19.280
and you're with your nonprofit and your egal six because89700:45:19.280 --> 00:45:21.679
even your egal six you train law enforcement on some89800:45:21.719 --> 00:45:22.360
of the stuff as well.89900:45:22.440 --> 00:45:25.440
Right, we do, Yeah, we we get into more you know,90000:45:25.519 --> 00:45:27.760
smother things. Leadership and smother things that I have been90100:45:27.800 --> 00:45:32.119
interest in. But but yeah, certainly, and I I agree.90200:45:32.159 --> 00:45:34.079
I mean if we can, if we can change a90300:45:34.159 --> 00:45:38.039
generation and get them to think differently than than, that90400:45:38.199 --> 00:45:40.280
sets us up for success in the future. And that's90500:45:40.320 --> 00:45:40.679
what we need.90600:45:41.159 --> 00:45:42.840
Well, back to the cartels. Are we on the right90700:45:42.880 --> 00:45:46.400
path so far? Are we? I mean labeling a terrorist organization?90800:45:46.599 --> 00:45:46.719
Is that?90900:45:46.880 --> 00:45:48.760
Is that the right? Is that the perfect way to91000:45:48.840 --> 00:45:51.199
start this by actually saying, yeah, it's a serious I91100:45:51.480 --> 00:45:51.760
think so.91200:45:51.920 --> 00:45:54.239
I yeah, I mean we got to address it. I91300:45:54.280 --> 00:45:55.679
mean we you know, and that's that's one thing I91400:45:55.760 --> 00:45:58.159
do like about you know that that we're we're actually91500:45:58.199 --> 00:46:00.639
having this conversation nationally now. It's you know, and I91600:46:00.760 --> 00:46:02.719
know that there's still people that are playing politics and91700:46:03.280 --> 00:46:05.039
because it came out of his mouth and there are91800:46:05.119 --> 00:46:07.519
people that have to just you know, oppose it just91900:46:07.559 --> 00:46:08.239
because it was him.92000:46:08.920 --> 00:46:10.960
People are very team oriented, you know what I'm saying.92100:46:11.119 --> 00:46:16.960
Yeah, and you know, uh, Derek Maltz uh. I know92200:46:17.039 --> 00:46:19.199
there's been some change the DA this last couple of days,92300:46:19.239 --> 00:46:21.480
but you know, he he I think he's still the92400:46:21.480 --> 00:46:23.679
acting administrator. I mean, he always says and I steal92500:46:23.760 --> 00:46:25.840
this line it's not a red issue or a blue issue.92600:46:25.880 --> 00:46:27.599
It's a red, white and blue issue. And I who92700:46:27.679 --> 00:46:30.199
hardly agree. I mean, we've got to take off our92800:46:30.599 --> 00:46:32.960
rs and r d's and say, hey, you know this92900:46:33.119 --> 00:46:35.760
is this is killing our country, especially our young people.93000:46:35.880 --> 00:46:39.280
And so I think, uh, I'm happy that we're having93100:46:39.320 --> 00:46:42.320
this discussion nationally, you know, I I I don't know93200:46:42.559 --> 00:46:45.679
how it's gonna end up with with us in Mexico,93300:46:45.880 --> 00:46:48.440
but but hey, you know what, both parts, both both93400:46:48.480 --> 00:46:51.039
countries are at the table talking and that's exactly what93500:46:51.119 --> 00:46:52.039
we need. We need action.93600:46:52.440 --> 00:46:55.159
Yeah, we do, absolutely, and and it's it's it is93700:46:55.280 --> 00:46:58.320
a uh, there's not it's not like a blanket solution93800:46:58.400 --> 00:46:59.920
to this. I mean, we got to change our cultural93900:47:00.079 --> 00:47:02.760
perspective on how we use drugs and how we think94000:47:02.840 --> 00:47:06.320
drugs are beneficial to us, right. I think they need94100:47:06.400 --> 00:47:09.880
to stop letting big pharma advertise like that's got to stop.94200:47:10.159 --> 00:47:13.119
That's got to stop. Advertisement is meant for you to94300:47:13.639 --> 00:47:15.599
recognize a brand. And if you're at the point where94400:47:15.599 --> 00:47:19.079
you recognize a prescription drug brand at that like every94500:47:19.159 --> 00:47:21.519
day in your life for like you know, oh o zempa,94600:47:21.559 --> 00:47:22.760
I'm just doing out there by the way. I'm not94700:47:22.840 --> 00:47:25.880
talking bad about it, but just saying everybody knows it now, right,94800:47:26.079 --> 00:47:27.360
So the first thing you think when you want to94900:47:27.360 --> 00:47:30.280
lose weight is ozempic. That's exactly what marketing does. And95000:47:30.760 --> 00:47:32.639
the fact that they're allowing big pharma to do that95100:47:32.719 --> 00:47:35.199
in America is ridiculous. I don't think I don't think95200:47:35.239 --> 00:47:36.960
any of the country allows that currently.95300:47:37.320 --> 00:47:40.440
No, you know, it's it's funny when I my four95400:47:40.480 --> 00:47:42.400
hour class, I do dive into a little bit of95500:47:42.760 --> 00:47:47.000
the history of the pharmaceutical industry, and interestingly enough, it95600:47:47.079 --> 00:47:49.320
actually goes back to a guy named Arthur Sackler. And95700:47:50.559 --> 00:47:53.559
if you know that name Sackler, that's because Richard Sackler95800:47:53.719 --> 00:47:56.199
was the head of Purdue, you know during the release95900:47:56.559 --> 00:47:58.800
ninety six. But his uncle is a guy named Arthur,96000:47:58.880 --> 00:48:01.920
and Arthur was a He was a doctor as well,96100:48:01.960 --> 00:48:07.440
but he was actually an advertising quote unquote genius. In fact,96200:48:07.519 --> 00:48:09.559
they say that he invented the wheel when it came96300:48:09.639 --> 00:48:11.960
to modern medical advertising, and a lot of things that96400:48:12.119 --> 00:48:18.239
he did back in the fifties are regulated today that96500:48:18.320 --> 00:48:21.159
they can't do. I mean, he was uber aggressive, I96600:48:21.199 --> 00:48:24.480
mean pharmaceutical reps. He actually is the guy that started it.96700:48:25.199 --> 00:48:27.000
They called him detail men. So he was the first96800:48:27.039 --> 00:48:32.199
guy that said, hey, we need to we can't target patients.96900:48:32.239 --> 00:48:34.760
We can't target people because they're idiots. We need to97000:48:34.800 --> 00:48:37.039
go out to the physicians and we need to keep97100:48:37.159 --> 00:48:40.079
records on them, and we need to educate the physicians97200:48:40.119 --> 00:48:42.960
that aren't prescribing enough, and we need to use the97300:48:43.000 --> 00:48:45.840
ones that are and reward them and use them to97400:48:46.119 --> 00:48:49.239
educate the ones that aren't prescribing enough. And he was97500:48:49.360 --> 00:48:52.360
just very aggressive. And if you look at his history97600:48:53.119 --> 00:48:57.840
and how successful he made the pharmaceutical industry. I mean Pfizer,97700:48:57.960 --> 00:49:00.400
I mean Terrimizing that was released in nineteen fifty. He97800:49:00.480 --> 00:49:03.079
made them a household name. This was forty thirty or97900:49:03.119 --> 00:49:05.599
forty years before Viagra came out. I mean that's just98000:49:05.679 --> 00:49:09.039
one example. A valume diazepam. I mean, he made them98100:49:09.280 --> 00:49:12.599
the first pharmaceutical to make a billion dollars in sales.98200:49:12.679 --> 00:49:15.840
That's crazy, billion dollars in sales. That's crazy, absolutely, And98300:49:15.960 --> 00:49:19.679
it was very in your face aggressive advertising. And like98400:49:19.760 --> 00:49:23.119
I said, it may not seem like it, but there98500:49:23.159 --> 00:49:26.400
are a lot of restrictions on them. You know, I98600:49:26.519 --> 00:49:28.360
think we both agree there probably needs to be more.98700:49:29.480 --> 00:49:31.840
But a lot of the current restrictions are because of98800:49:31.960 --> 00:49:35.199
some of the stuff that he invented. Uh So it's98900:49:35.239 --> 00:49:37.920
and it's just fascinating because here's here's a Sackler and99000:49:38.000 --> 00:49:41.760
then you look, you know, forty years later, his his nephew,99100:49:41.880 --> 00:49:45.119
Richard Sackler, would would make them billionaires and then run99200:49:45.199 --> 00:49:45.960
them into the ground.99300:49:46.199 --> 00:49:50.039
That just that just speaks to the That just speaks99400:49:50.079 --> 00:49:51.960
to how far they will go to make a dollar.99500:49:52.280 --> 00:49:55.440
Because if they're if they're looking at their product that99600:49:55.719 --> 00:49:59.920
that that can be addictive, for example, can be addictive,99700:50:00.039 --> 00:50:02.920
and they know this, They know that certain drugs have99800:50:02.960 --> 00:50:07.119
side effects, and they're knowingly advertising it in the ways99900:50:07.159 --> 00:50:09.840
that they do. That just tells you what they really100000:50:09.920 --> 00:50:12.079
care about. Are they really caring about treating people and100100:50:12.199 --> 00:50:15.599
offering them pain management or are they just really looking100200:50:15.639 --> 00:50:17.000
for as much profit that they can make.100300:50:18.360 --> 00:50:22.079
I'd make an argument that at least with Purdue, they100400:50:22.079 --> 00:50:24.119
were it was about profit. I mean, we know that100500:50:24.199 --> 00:50:27.280
from a lot of internal documents, and I think you100600:50:27.320 --> 00:50:29.280
could make that argument with a lot of the companies.100700:50:29.360 --> 00:50:32.320
I mean, at least you could certainly a question we100800:50:32.400 --> 00:50:35.159
could ask. It's also around the food industry. You know,100900:50:36.360 --> 00:50:38.239
the Fielders that I actually did a show where I101000:50:38.239 --> 00:50:41.840
did deep dive on this and the ingredients that are101100:50:41.880 --> 00:50:44.599
using food here in America would never be using the EU.101200:50:44.679 --> 00:50:47.880
They're labeled as poisonous substances, but yet we're consuming them.101300:50:48.239 --> 00:50:50.679
It was about almost a three hour episode where I101400:50:50.719 --> 00:50:54.000
really dove into all this and it's ridiculous what we're101500:50:54.000 --> 00:50:56.039
allowed to use here in what the FDA says is101600:50:56.360 --> 00:50:59.719
suitable for consumption, that in the EU they wouldn't even touch,101700:51:00.039 --> 00:51:02.639
even touch even even the foods we have for example,101800:51:02.760 --> 00:51:05.280
like craft of st macaron and cheese. Yeah, if it's101900:51:05.320 --> 00:51:07.119
shipped to the EU or or let's say, even if102000:51:07.159 --> 00:51:10.559
it was to Italy, the cheese substance they use, the102100:51:10.639 --> 00:51:14.599
powdered cheese substance, is entirely different to those countries than102200:51:14.639 --> 00:51:15.639
what we're consuming.102300:51:15.679 --> 00:51:18.199
What's what's considered acceptable for us to have. So it's102400:51:18.239 --> 00:51:20.320
not like you said, it's not just the farm and industry.102500:51:20.920 --> 00:51:25.960
It's it's ridiculous that it's it's like money before health, right, money,102600:51:26.039 --> 00:51:29.400
money before looking out for the welfare of the actual people.102700:51:29.960 --> 00:51:32.760
It is. I was in I was in Germany last week.102800:51:32.880 --> 00:51:36.880
I I uh and I was I had some I102900:51:36.960 --> 00:51:39.719
had some French fries and I was eaten ketchup right,103000:51:40.800 --> 00:51:43.280
and I was like, why is this ketchup tastes like different?103100:51:44.679 --> 00:51:47.039
And and I realized it was.103200:51:47.880 --> 00:51:50.239
Like real, it was fresh, just tomatoes and maybe a103300:51:50.280 --> 00:51:52.320
little sugar. It wasn't some vinegar.103400:51:52.440 --> 00:51:55.880
Yeah. Yeah, And you know, and I actually had this103500:51:56.000 --> 00:51:59.599
conversation with someone else very similar common It's conversation about103600:51:59.679 --> 00:52:02.760
like the food. I mean, you taste the difference, right,103700:52:02.800 --> 00:52:04.360
and you come back and you read our labels and103800:52:05.320 --> 00:52:07.079
and then like you said, none of this stuff would103900:52:07.079 --> 00:52:10.039
even be legal in some of those countries, and it104000:52:10.119 --> 00:52:11.880
was Yeah, at the end of the day, this is104100:52:12.000 --> 00:52:13.000
it's it's all about.104200:52:12.760 --> 00:52:14.559
Profits for the most fun about the food when youre104300:52:14.559 --> 00:52:18.840
talk about labels. Once once they said that every every104400:52:18.920 --> 00:52:21.719
manufacturer had to actually list all the ingredients. I noticed104500:52:21.719 --> 00:52:23.679
that the labels got really tiny and I need a104600:52:23.719 --> 00:52:29.000
magnifying class to read it. They don't want Well, let's104700:52:29.039 --> 00:52:34.639
talk about your nonprofit the only two Milligrams inc. Let's104800:52:34.679 --> 00:52:36.239
talk about that and what you offer, and then how104900:52:36.360 --> 00:52:39.960
people can contact your company to procure your services.105000:52:42.199 --> 00:52:44.679
So so I I'm the executive director. I started this105100:52:45.239 --> 00:52:48.079
nonprofit officially in early twenty twenty four when we got105200:52:48.519 --> 00:52:52.159
IRS designation as a five oh one C three. Our105300:52:52.360 --> 00:52:58.559
entire board of directors is retired DEA agents. And like105400:52:58.599 --> 00:53:01.440
I said, O, our mission has been uh drug education,105500:53:01.599 --> 00:53:05.199
specifically illicit fentanyl, but we are expanding that and looking105600:53:05.239 --> 00:53:07.719
at other ways that we can that we can uh105700:53:08.000 --> 00:53:10.800
deal with with trends and things that are impacting our105800:53:10.840 --> 00:53:13.800
communities because ultimately, our our goal is to is to105900:53:14.079 --> 00:53:17.840
is to make our community safer and and uh so106000:53:18.039 --> 00:53:20.280
we're looking at ways to to expand our reach and106100:53:20.400 --> 00:53:24.159
and to get into other things other than just drug education. Uh.106200:53:24.360 --> 00:53:27.280
My website is at only two MG dot com, so106300:53:27.440 --> 00:53:30.159
it's O N L Y and then just the number106400:53:30.199 --> 00:53:33.559
two it's not spelled out, and then MG which stands106500:53:33.599 --> 00:53:38.000
for Milligrams dot com. And you can you can learn106600:53:38.079 --> 00:53:40.760
more about the presentations I do. My schedules on there.106700:53:41.760 --> 00:53:43.559
You know, if you want my bio things like that,106800:53:43.960 --> 00:53:47.800
uh uh you can you can contact me. My information106900:53:47.960 --> 00:53:49.840
is on there. If I don't get back to you107000:53:49.960 --> 00:53:52.639
right away, it's because I'm flying or teaching, uh or107100:53:53.320 --> 00:53:56.039
or I'm on a podcast. So right, so like this one,107200:53:56.679 --> 00:54:01.920
that's right. Uh Uh, I travel throughout the US. Last107300:54:02.000 --> 00:54:06.000
year I did fifty four present main presentations in about107400:54:06.039 --> 00:54:13.920
twenty states, so that's quite a bit. I self fund107500:54:14.800 --> 00:54:18.079
a lot of what I did last year. I can't107600:54:18.280 --> 00:54:20.679
I'm not a rich person. I can't can't continue to107700:54:20.800 --> 00:54:22.559
do that, but I but I don't want money to107800:54:22.599 --> 00:54:25.400
get in the way of this. So when an organization107900:54:25.519 --> 00:54:28.760
calls me if they can't afford to fund my travel108000:54:28.800 --> 00:54:30.639
out there, and then I'll find a way somehow, and108100:54:30.760 --> 00:54:35.000
that's typically through my for profit organization, EGLE six Training.108200:54:35.519 --> 00:54:38.920
I pretty much put all that money into into only108300:54:38.960 --> 00:54:41.119
two MG because like I said, I don't want someone108400:54:41.159 --> 00:54:42.840
to say, hey, we can't afford to have you out here,108500:54:42.880 --> 00:54:45.280
and no, I mean I'll find a way to get108600:54:45.280 --> 00:54:48.400
out there because this discussion is too important not to have.108700:54:48.800 --> 00:54:48.920
Well.108800:54:48.960 --> 00:54:52.320
And as you said earlier, man, the education is very108900:54:52.320 --> 00:54:54.239
important in all this, and that's where it really starts.109000:54:54.320 --> 00:54:57.000
It really is. And yeah, and you know when I109100:54:57.079 --> 00:54:59.519
started this with actually law enforcement, because you know, like109200:54:59.559 --> 00:55:01.760
I said, I navigated in that world for thirty years109300:55:02.199 --> 00:55:05.400
and I still work in that world. But now, I mean,109400:55:05.480 --> 00:55:10.320
these are wildly popular with just the public. I still109500:55:10.440 --> 00:55:13.559
get usually specific sectors, you know, a lot of healthcare,109600:55:13.599 --> 00:55:16.199
a lot of education, a lot of people that are109700:55:16.239 --> 00:55:19.679
in the treatment recovery, you know, a lot of law enforcement.109800:55:19.880 --> 00:55:22.800
But I wish I could get more parents and just109900:55:23.039 --> 00:55:27.960
general public. That's been a struggle. I'm not alone. When110000:55:27.960 --> 00:55:30.079
I first started this, a friend of mine, retired agent110100:55:30.159 --> 00:55:34.000
out out in California said, because if you get if110200:55:34.000 --> 00:55:35.960
you get more than one percent of the of the110300:55:36.039 --> 00:55:39.440
families in the room, than good luck, because it's just110400:55:40.280 --> 00:55:42.480
not going to happen. And I remember when he first110500:55:42.480 --> 00:55:44.760
said that, I'm like, come on now, you know, and110600:55:45.360 --> 00:55:50.599
and I had I had a specific presentation I was110700:55:50.679 --> 00:55:55.280
doing just four families and I had six people show up. Wow,110800:55:55.920 --> 00:55:58.280
you know, out of several thousand people in this particular110900:55:58.360 --> 00:56:02.159
school that I was working with. So I experienced that firsthand.111000:56:02.199 --> 00:56:04.000
I mean so, like I said, most of the folks111100:56:04.079 --> 00:56:07.480
that come are you know, from those industries that I111200:56:07.559 --> 00:56:10.039
talked about. But I would love to I'd love to111300:56:10.079 --> 00:56:13.199
see more people just give a damn and really want111400:56:13.239 --> 00:56:15.480
to educate themselves. And that's one of the things that111500:56:15.559 --> 00:56:17.760
I try to tell people as well, is in all111600:56:17.800 --> 00:56:22.480
my presentations is is take this information, do some research.111700:56:23.079 --> 00:56:26.079
Call me. I'll help you with that and be a111800:56:26.199 --> 00:56:29.199
force multiplier, you know, take this information back to your homes,111900:56:29.280 --> 00:56:34.199
back to your your communities, your your rotary club, church, whatever.112000:56:34.320 --> 00:56:36.519
I mean, let's let's let's have this discussion. I mean,112100:56:36.559 --> 00:56:40.400
we're we're losing three hundred people every single day in112200:56:40.480 --> 00:56:43.000
this country to drugs. That's about one person every five112300:56:43.079 --> 00:56:45.119
to six minutes. And we know that of the total112400:56:45.239 --> 00:56:49.280
numbers that we're losing about two thirds because of one drug, fentanyl.112500:56:49.960 --> 00:56:52.119
And I can tell you, after thirty years in law enforcement,112600:56:52.440 --> 00:56:54.840
I've never seen a drug more impactful. I really haven't.112700:56:55.440 --> 00:57:00.639
I mean, this has changed the drug landscape. And education112800:57:00.840 --> 00:57:02.960
is such an important piece. And like I said something,112900:57:03.000 --> 00:57:05.480
I've devoted this part of my life to doing and113000:57:05.599 --> 00:57:09.360
I hope that that I can be a force multiplayer113100:57:09.400 --> 00:57:11.599
and give people a foundation that they can take the113200:57:11.639 --> 00:57:15.480
information back and they can have these discussions. And at113300:57:15.519 --> 00:57:18.840
the end of the day, knowledge is power, and and that's.113400:57:18.719 --> 00:57:19.280
What we have to do.113500:57:19.400 --> 00:57:21.119
We have to make people more knowledgeable.113600:57:21.679 --> 00:57:24.920
I agree, And I hope that people don't don't avoid113700:57:24.960 --> 00:57:28.559
these sessions because they don't they don't want it to113800:57:28.679 --> 00:57:31.840
be in their face that it's confirming what they already know. Yes,113900:57:31.880 --> 00:57:35.079
there is a problem. Yeah, that could be a case too.114000:57:35.159 --> 00:57:38.119
You know, some people, some people don't want to They114100:57:38.199 --> 00:57:40.079
have an idea that there's a problem, but they really114200:57:40.199 --> 00:57:41.280
don't want it confirmed.114300:57:42.119 --> 00:57:45.400
I've had parents actually tell me out of sight, out114400:57:45.440 --> 00:57:48.719
of mind basically what I was saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,114500:57:49.039 --> 00:57:50.960
and I can. At first, I was like, you know,114600:57:51.039 --> 00:57:53.320
but now I just tell them. You realize that someone's114700:57:53.320 --> 00:57:55.519
going to have this discussion. I mean, well, if it's114800:57:55.559 --> 00:57:58.119
not you, it's you're the parent. If it's not you,114900:57:58.360 --> 00:58:00.280
then it's going to be social media. It's going to115000:58:00.280 --> 00:58:02.280
be a friend, it's going to be a drug trafficker.115100:58:02.800 --> 00:58:06.159
Someone's going to have this discussion with your child, you know,115200:58:06.679 --> 00:58:10.960
And it's just it. It makes me sad, it really does.115300:58:11.119 --> 00:58:13.760
I mean, here's an example. I won't say the school district,115400:58:13.800 --> 00:58:15.800
but I was invited to a school district that wanted115500:58:15.800 --> 00:58:19.360
to have one to provide different resources for parents, and115600:58:19.480 --> 00:58:21.960
they so it was drugs, it was teen pregnancy, it115700:58:22.079 --> 00:58:26.440
was nutrition, it was suicide, it was online predators. I mean,115800:58:26.840 --> 00:58:29.800
my goodness. They probably had ten experts in different fields115900:58:30.000 --> 00:58:33.119
come in and then they said, we get it. Parents work,116000:58:33.159 --> 00:58:34.920
they're busy, we're going to do one on a weekend,116100:58:35.320 --> 00:58:36.800
and we're going to do one on a week night,116200:58:37.599 --> 00:58:40.000
and we're going to have ten experts and all these116300:58:40.039 --> 00:58:42.440
different fields come in two different times. And I was116400:58:42.480 --> 00:58:45.440
the drug guy. You know how many folks had come116500:58:45.480 --> 00:58:49.480
in for my class zero and it wasn't me. The116600:58:49.559 --> 00:58:53.079
other classes a lot of zeros. They had seventeen parents116700:58:53.199 --> 00:58:56.800
show up total for the two different days total. This116800:58:57.000 --> 00:59:01.079
was a huge school district. Do you think when when, when,116900:59:01.199 --> 00:59:03.760
when when daughter gets pregnant or something happens, who do117000:59:03.800 --> 00:59:06.199
you think gets the blame? You know, well, you didn't117100:59:06.239 --> 00:59:08.639
do enough, you didn't do enough. No people got to117200:59:08.679 --> 00:59:12.960
get involved, and and it just it's aggravating, it really is.117300:59:13.119 --> 00:59:16.000
Do you think they should make these this information like117400:59:16.400 --> 00:59:19.480
a mandatory class like they do used to you years117500:59:19.480 --> 00:59:21.719
ago in school? Remember when I was going when I117600:59:21.760 --> 00:59:24.320
was going to school, that there was a class that117700:59:24.400 --> 00:59:26.119
you would have to attend to where they would address117800:59:26.199 --> 00:59:31.159
these these issues or it would literally be like a117900:59:31.320 --> 00:59:33.480
rally for example, where the whole school, like it's during118000:59:33.519 --> 00:59:35.000
school time and you have to be there and they118100:59:35.039 --> 00:59:37.599
would get these presentations. Are they still allowing that? Are118200:59:37.639 --> 00:59:38.199
they still doing that?118300:59:38.760 --> 00:59:40.400
Yeah? And I love when they do. I was up118400:59:40.480 --> 00:59:43.199
in rural Missouri, in the middle of the state, on118500:59:43.280 --> 00:59:45.000
the very top of the state, I don't know, probably118600:59:45.039 --> 00:59:47.320
two or three weeks ago, and I got to address118700:59:47.360 --> 00:59:49.239
a couple of school districts and that was wonderful and118800:59:49.320 --> 00:59:51.880
I love when schools do that. We even had some118900:59:52.000 --> 00:59:54.519
parents show up, which was even even better, right because119000:59:54.519 --> 00:59:58.079
they're supporting their children, they're supporting the school district. Some119100:59:58.440 --> 01:00:01.639
states have have think Oregon just came on and said119201:00:01.639 --> 01:00:05.679
they're going to require that. Now you know, I know119301:00:05.840 --> 01:00:07.480
people are going to hear this and say, oh, no,119401:00:07.679 --> 01:00:09.199
read and write, that's what we need, And yeah, we119501:00:09.280 --> 01:00:11.239
should be teaching our kids to read and write. I'm119601:00:11.360 --> 01:00:14.440
totally with you. But let me tell you, these are conversations,119701:00:14.519 --> 01:00:17.559
aren't We aren't having that we're not having in the home.119801:00:17.719 --> 01:00:19.960
So if a school can can can bring someone in119901:00:20.119 --> 01:00:22.440
like me or anyone who come in and give their120001:00:22.639 --> 01:00:27.320
children accurate information to help them successfully navigate some of120101:00:27.360 --> 01:00:30.280
these challenges are going to face, then why not? I mean,120201:00:30.360 --> 01:00:32.880
why can't we get behind this? And that's why I120301:00:33.000 --> 01:00:36.440
created my Shattering Dreams presentation. It was specifically for students,120401:00:36.599 --> 01:00:39.599
is to give them the information, and and and and120501:00:40.480 --> 01:00:43.519
again empower them to make better decisions when they're faced120601:00:43.559 --> 01:00:43.920
with these.120701:00:43.920 --> 01:00:47.400
Question and maybe maybe these sessions that for example, like120801:00:47.440 --> 01:00:51.400
what you offer should be something that let's say district120901:00:51.400 --> 01:00:53.599
administration at a school should have. It should be like121001:00:53.639 --> 01:00:57.760
a mandatory. You know, hey, school starting again, summer's over,121101:00:58.320 --> 01:01:00.679
let's get you know, it's all part of their professional121201:01:00.719 --> 01:01:04.840
development training, right, they should integrate this as part of121301:01:04.920 --> 01:01:08.239
that have have you Have you seen any district do that?121401:01:08.840 --> 01:01:11.039
A few? Yeah, yeah, and there are I mean, I121501:01:11.320 --> 01:01:14.320
know some folks in the same space. You know, my121601:01:14.480 --> 01:01:17.280
space has been kind of a lot of adults, a121701:01:17.320 --> 01:01:20.039
lot of law enforcement. I know some some people that121801:01:20.119 --> 01:01:23.960
are specifically focused in that in that space for for students,121901:01:24.000 --> 01:01:25.719
and they've been pretty successful.122001:01:26.679 --> 01:01:29.559
Well that's that's a positive. Yeah, that's a positive. And122101:01:29.599 --> 01:01:31.239
then when you when you do these big rallies what's122201:01:31.800 --> 01:01:33.440
out of school is do you get a positive reaction122301:01:33.519 --> 01:01:34.480
from from students there?122401:01:35.199 --> 01:01:39.039
Yeah? And let me tell you it, it really drives me.122501:01:39.159 --> 01:01:41.159
It really does. When you when you have a student122601:01:41.239 --> 01:01:44.039
come up to you. I had a college student come122701:01:44.119 --> 01:01:46.559
up to me at a different event that I was at,122801:01:47.559 --> 01:01:52.599
probably a month after I did this particular session and122901:01:53.519 --> 01:01:54.880
he was like, hey, connect and I didn't even know123001:01:54.920 --> 01:01:56.400
who it was. He was like, can I tell you something.123101:01:56.440 --> 01:01:58.159
I'm like yeah, and he goes, I saw you speak,123201:01:58.239 --> 01:02:02.039
and you know, I've been really, you know, making some123301:02:02.159 --> 01:02:04.199
really bad decisions in my life, and you made me123401:02:04.280 --> 01:02:07.320
think about some things and and you know, thank you,123501:02:07.480 --> 01:02:09.239
you know, I mean, and I was almost in tears.123601:02:09.280 --> 01:02:11.320
I mean, just even thinking about it really just kind123701:02:11.360 --> 01:02:12.920
of moves me. And I can't tell you how many123801:02:12.960 --> 01:02:14.840
young people who have come up to me in middle123901:02:14.880 --> 01:02:17.760
school students and just hug you and say, you know,124001:02:18.000 --> 01:02:21.320
thank you, you know, because they're getting really impactful information124101:02:22.400 --> 01:02:25.320
and that no one's given given them before. And that124201:02:25.880 --> 01:02:29.440
I tell you that that has been the overwhelming response124301:02:29.519 --> 01:02:31.840
I have had. I have had zero and I hope124401:02:32.119 --> 01:02:34.920
I'm not jinxing myself here. I've had zero negative response124501:02:35.480 --> 01:02:36.760
from talking to young people.124601:02:37.159 --> 01:02:40.440
It's just that's good. Oh, it's been a wonderful experience.124701:02:40.480 --> 01:02:44.480
We need we need to continue the education. We definitely124801:02:44.559 --> 01:02:48.280
need to change how prescription drugs are handled in America period.124901:02:50.000 --> 01:02:52.480
And yeah, the cartels are definitely a problem that we125001:02:52.559 --> 01:02:55.000
need to get a hold of, especially if if they're125101:02:55.039 --> 01:02:57.320
the ones who are responsible for I mean the majority125201:02:57.360 --> 01:02:59.719
of all drugs that are that are being imported into125301:02:59.719 --> 01:03:03.239
the US or smuggled into the US. It's it's crazy,125401:03:03.960 --> 01:03:06.199
it's it's not an easy issue to get a hold of.125501:03:06.400 --> 01:03:08.920
I mean, you know better than I. You were in125601:03:09.039 --> 01:03:13.599
law enforcement. This is what you did before we before125701:03:13.599 --> 01:03:15.199
we go, though, I got to ask you, have you125801:03:15.320 --> 01:03:17.960
seen a positive change at all in getting a handle125901:03:18.000 --> 01:03:19.639
on the situation? I mean we talked a lot, got126001:03:19.639 --> 01:03:22.079
a lot of history, But have you seen a positive126101:03:22.199 --> 01:03:24.239
change or are we in the same place? Are we126201:03:24.320 --> 01:03:27.440
taking steps backwards? Where do you see us at now?126301:03:30.079 --> 01:03:32.519
I have seen a positive change. I mean we're not126401:03:34.280 --> 01:03:36.719
We're nowhere out of this mess. I mean we are126501:03:36.760 --> 01:03:40.639
an illicited fentanyl crisis. And you know, we're, like I said,126601:03:40.639 --> 01:03:42.679
we're losing three hundred people a day and the majority126701:03:42.679 --> 01:03:45.239
of these people are because of this one drug. We're126801:03:45.280 --> 01:03:48.079
having this discussion more. I think that's a healthy thing,126901:03:48.760 --> 01:03:50.480
you know. I think that's going to hopefully lead to127001:03:50.599 --> 01:03:54.239
more solutions and more people that are that are you know,127101:03:54.559 --> 01:03:58.239
hitting the ground and actually trying to work towards solutions.127201:03:58.280 --> 01:04:01.840
So yeah, I'm optimistic. I think we have seen some progress,127301:04:01.960 --> 01:04:05.199
and I think we need have a long way to go.127401:04:05.400 --> 01:04:07.039
I think, you know, one thing we didn't talk about127501:04:07.119 --> 01:04:09.320
was the stigma. You know, how we how we treat127601:04:09.360 --> 01:04:12.039
people that are struggling with substance use disorder, with addiction.127701:04:12.960 --> 01:04:16.480
You know, I think that's slowly getting better, but it's uh,127801:04:18.079 --> 01:04:19.800
you know that's going to be part of of of127901:04:20.039 --> 01:04:21.960
of the solution is how do we deal with that128001:04:22.079 --> 01:04:27.119
as well. Yeah, the bottom line is I've seen a128101:04:28.519 --> 01:04:31.360
I think it's more positive, but it's been a slow movement.128201:04:31.440 --> 01:04:31.760
How's that.128301:04:32.280 --> 01:04:34.159
Well, at least at least you're seeing it as a128401:04:34.239 --> 01:04:37.920
positive as someone who's still involved. At least you're seeing128501:04:38.199 --> 01:04:41.719
things start to go into go the right direction and128601:04:41.880 --> 01:04:45.800
get a handle on all this. So well, I think128701:04:45.880 --> 01:04:48.519
that's my time, your time for now. Doesn't mean we128801:04:48.519 --> 01:04:50.639
won't connect again. I think we will. I'll stay in128901:04:50.719 --> 01:04:53.880
touch with you. I'd like to have you back. But yeah,129001:04:53.920 --> 01:04:57.440
thank you, Brian. And again, tell everybody your websites and129101:04:57.519 --> 01:04:58.960
I'll try to put all that our show notes as129201:04:59.000 --> 01:05:00.599
well as when they listen to this day. Have the links.129301:05:01.039 --> 01:05:04.280
So again you have only two milligrams inc. And then129401:05:04.360 --> 01:05:08.719
of course you have the Eagle six training and uh, yeah,129501:05:08.880 --> 01:05:11.960
thank you very much. Want anything else you want to add.129601:05:12.039 --> 01:05:14.880
No, I appreciate that your time and and happy to129701:05:15.039 --> 01:05:17.719
reconnect any time. Uh. If someone wants to get in129801:05:17.840 --> 01:05:19.960
touch with me, only two MG is the best way129901:05:20.000 --> 01:05:22.840
to to read more about it or more about me130001:05:23.000 --> 01:05:26.760
and and and contact me. And I'm happy to happy130101:05:26.800 --> 01:05:28.199
to help in any capacity I can.130201:05:28.320 --> 01:05:31.719
Okay, well, appreciate it, and uh, thanks for adjusting your130301:05:31.760 --> 01:05:34.079
time for melgizing.130401:05:34.159 --> 01:05:34.480
All good.130501:05:34.599 --> 01:05:37.039
Yeah, man, Hey, great conversation, a lot of good info.130601:05:37.159 --> 01:05:40.360
Thank you very much for being on the show. Appreciate it. Okay,130701:05:40.440 --> 01:05:42.960
World of Bladies listeners as always, thanks for listening, and130801:05:43.039 --> 01:05:46.360
don't forget to like, subscribe, share the show, and click130901:05:46.400 --> 01:05:47.599
the notification button.131001:05:48.480 --> 01:06:00.280
Have a great day, your content, feel intention intemption as131101:06:00.400 --> 01:06:06.280
all get do do do do do Do Do Do131201:06:06.440 --> 01:06:17.400
Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do do
