Feb. 9, 2025

61 - Tahmina Watson - Immigration Lawyer and Published Author

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My guest Tahmina Watson is an accomplished immigration lawyer and published author. Together, we discuss Work Visa classifications, how they affect working immigrants, and the regulations behind them. We also touch on other sensitive immigration issues, but we ran short of time, as this is a very complex issue with many variables that needs further discussion.

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You are listening to a Fonds Media Network production.

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Welcome to episode sixty one of World Ablaze. On this episode,

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I have Tamina Watson. Tamina Watson is the founder of

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Watson Immigration Law, where she has an expertise in investor

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business and family based immigration. She is a published author

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of multiple books and a strong advocate for immigration reform.

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We spend some time discussing the various work Jesus how

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they relate to a person's immigration status, as well as

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touched on some other immigration issues that relate to the

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United States and how that may affect immigrants around the world.

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I hope you find this conversation informative and I hope

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that it opens the door for having further conversations with you,

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your friends, and your family about this sensitive issue. Well, firstly,

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I thank you for being here or taking the time

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to be here. I know that you're busy. I was

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reading up a little bit on you and you're an

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published author, have another book coming out, Which is what's

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an achievement for I mean, just doing one is an achievement.

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But I mean which which number book is this? It's

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like number.

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Let's see six, sixty six or seven. Yeah, I mean Yeah,

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you know, I love saying I've lost count I went

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to ninety two, like Deepak Chopra or something. How did

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get to ninety something? What are they doing that? I

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don't know how to do? So yeah, I'm working on it.

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But it's interesting. Every book has journey and life of

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its own, and this is at the early stages of

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its life.

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Yeah, that's that's crazy. That's something I've never done, never achieved,

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And so hats off to you for that. And you

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specialize in immigration law, correct or did you practice any

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other types of law before then?

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I practice immigration US immigration law now for my entire

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career in the United States, But when I lived in London,

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I was born and raised in London, and I was

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a lawyer there. In my early days, I did criminal

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defense law, some amounts of civil law practice.

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Okay, So one of the reason I want to well,

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one of the bigger reasons I reached out to you

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is because one you're an authority on this. Two you

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are published, and you do have a law firm that

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specializes in this, namely immigration and immigration law. And with

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everything going on, I wanted a perspective from someone who's

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actually in it, who can actually interpret law and can

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explain what's really going on and what rights there are

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for those that are considered illegal or undocumented that are

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coming into our country. And from what I understand, there's

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always like there's a difference versus when they're on one

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side of the border and when they cross over. And

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of course there's the other situation where airports are kind

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of like Switzerland or neutral if they don't really have

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any borders, like they're not a country right until they

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actually cross over into the destination they're going to. So

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there's a lot of that, And I also want to

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get your opinion on how things are being handled by

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the administration. And we don't have to get too political

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per se, but I do want to get some better

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explanation of the laws, the rights and is the administration

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going about this the correct way. Because I have my opinions,

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I know other people have their opinions. Again, you know,

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I talk to like people in the intelligence community. I

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have other journalists I speak with, and not a lawyer

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though that specializes in this particular subject matter. So with

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that being said, I thought, hey, to me, and maybe

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you can help us with this, Maybe you can explain

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a little bit you know would.

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I would be honored. My question for you is who

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is your primary audience?

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Well, our audience is pretty much I don't know everyone

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whoever is willing to listen. To be quite honest, if

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we have worldwide audience, multiple countries, hundreds of thousands of downloads,

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so I'm not really sure exactly who everyone is.

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But a great problem top Yeah, well.

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I don't know about that. I just I just try

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to keep things going and make sure everybody is satisfied

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whoever does like my particular brand anyway, and I think

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everybody who is listening to this episode now, which is great,

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but you know, regardless, again, I'll be honest, this show

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can get political, but there's times where it's not. It's just, hey,

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let's talk about the facts. Let's talk about what's going on.

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Let's talk about what's happening from a factual standpoint, from

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the standpoint backed by data. And that's one thing that

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I'm hoping that you can do for us, you know.

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And one of the things that were that was in

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well contested for a while or people didn't understand and

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even I'm still foggy on was was the right to

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work as in you know, the h H one H

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two A visas or H two B visas. Can you

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explain how that works and how that relates to someone

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who has one of those visas and works in the

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United States.

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Sure, so, thank you so much again, George for having

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me and asking some of these brilliant questions, because when

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people hear sound bites in the news, it gets even

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more confusing because one side it says one thing and

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another says another, and then you know, the listener or

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the layperson doesn't know really where anything stands. So just

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back basics for a moment. The United States immigration system

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was created in nineteen ninety and the current system that

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we work with, and it created a family based system,

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element based system. In the employment based system, we have

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temporary work visas and we have green card options. But

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the temporary work visas or the temporary visa programs are

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in the employment based system. There's no temporary visa in

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the family based system. The family system is primarily get

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a green card you with misfah with you, and so

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in the employment based pre visa categories there are various

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different types of visa categories which are labeled as ault

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and then a number and so H one B, H

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two B, H two A one A one B. And

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so there are these letters and numbers and then letters

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again that signa for specific categories of visas. And when

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it comes to these visas, they're really defined by the

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type of work somebody is going to be doing. So

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if you're a priest coming here to be a priest

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to add a church, you would get a religious visa

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R one. If you are quote unquote a genius, one

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of the top people in your profession, be getting an

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old visa, And that was a matter of controversy see

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during the first time President Trump was in office because

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the first Lady had that visa. So the H one

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B visa is a work visa as well. And the

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basic premise of the H one B visa is that

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you must have a bachelor's degree in a specific subject

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matter that gives you the academic training and theoretical training

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to do a particular job that requires that training. So

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even though I'm a lawyer, i would not be eligible

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for a job in the computer industry because my degree

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is not in computer science. Okay, so the specific degree

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has to match a specific job. Any work visa has

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three primary requirements to show number one that there is

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an employer. Number two, there's a job, and number tho,

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there's an employee that you're going to sponsor. The employer

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is going to sponsor. Now, the employer has to make

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specific promises number one that they are going to pay

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the prevailing wage for that type of job in that

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type of breer. So an entry level doctor in Kansas

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City may get let's call it, fifty thousand dollars a year,

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but the entry level doctor in New York might be

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getting seventy thousand dollars a year. So the prevailing wage

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is determined by the Department of Labor and they decide

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what the salary will be, and the employer has to

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essentially promise that they will pay that salary. So that's

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the number one promise and number two promise is that

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they are they have the finances to pay that salary

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for a job that actually truly exists. Okay. And so

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when we hear debates in the news, often the debate

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is about bringing in cheap labor, particularly on the H

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one B front. You might remember around Christmas twenty twenty

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four was major you by controversial disctions where Elon Musk

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supports the H one B, and Steve Bannon does not

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support the H one B, and then President Trump that yes,

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he supports the H one B, And so there's controversy

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among leadership about the benefits of an H one B.

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But what are the facts. The facts are that employers

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in the United States, such as Microsoft, Amazon, Boeing, you

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name the big corporation, they use H one B visas

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because they generally cannot find enough talent to take those jobs.

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Why is that is because our education system is not

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producing sufficient talented minds or people for our workforce. Now,

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the question that comes up from that is, well, they're

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cheap labor, You're paying them less, And the answer is no,

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if anything, it costs more to hire somebody on an

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H one B. And the reason is not only are

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they they the employer making the promise as per the

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Department of Labour's guidance, but they also have to be

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competitive because the people that they are trying to recruit

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are being courted by multiple companies, and so they have

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to make sure that the employer's offer is attractive enough

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for somebody to say, yes, I would like to join you.

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So they are often being competitive in the market. But secondly,

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the employer has to then pay for legal fees, HI fees,

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compliance fee go forth. And so for anybody listening, each

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one B is an important visa in our immigration system

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because often people behind the scenes that are managing important

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parts of our lives. And you just need to look

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at your telephone, your cell phone, the hardware, the network,

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the software often are being managed by high skilled immigrants

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who might be working at some of these telephone companies

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or the wireless companies, or the you know, the technology companies.

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All the apps that you have on your phone by

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a lot of high skilled immigrants.

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Okay, so that was that was great on clarifying the

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H one B I have. I also have further questions

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as the differences between classification H one versus H two.

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But I want to back up a bit, because you're right,

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a lot of people were thinking this is just cheap labor,

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and I want, I want to want to say something

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about that, and I'm kind of I'm not saying I'm

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correcting this, but I'm kind of thinking where this argument

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possibly may have come from. And I know this from

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the construction industry and various other businesses that I've owned

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also throughout the years, and I will say that sometimes

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there's a difference between prevailing wage and the market value

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of a job in a certain area. So let's say

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construction work, for example, if you're a framer, prevailing wage

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I've just thrown this out there could be twenty five

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dollars an hour, but due to the market demand and

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what usually pays an experienced framer in that particular area,

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they're actually getting paid let's say upwards of forty five

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dollars an hour, especially if they're in the union. So

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I'm wondering if that may have contributed to the misunderstanding

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of you know, as you said, cheap labor was it

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was it Could it have been a difference between what

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was considered a market value for a job and what

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was considered a standard prevailing wage.

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That's a really, really astute question, and that could be

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a perception that a lot of people have. But I

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come back to competitiveness of the limited amount of talent

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that there is in this country. And so when I now,

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I live in Washington State, so it's very easy for

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me toly talk about Microsoft and Amazon. But when there

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is somebody both these companies might want to hire, and

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the startup smaller companies want to hire the same person,

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they have to be competitive with competitive market rates, otherwise

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they will not have that talented person join them. So

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while there is perception, that actually is probably widespread, George,

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So great question. Thank you for asking that the pool

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of people that these companies can draw from are still

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limited and so you have to pay market value. And

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in addition to that, there are you know, no no

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secret if you go look at any job ad for

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Monster dot com or Indeed dot com or wherever salaries

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are posted, and these salaries when somebody promises a salary

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that is through a form on the Department of Labor's website,

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and the Department of Labour's website will have a lot

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of data that can be accessed by the public. And

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so it it is again coming back to you, George.

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It's a good question, But the reality is these companies

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pay the market value.

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Right, And I was just asking the question because I'm

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wondering if that's where that perception came from, and they

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probably because I've seen it myself, you know. And I'm

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not saying that applies to the situation for example, when

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we're talking about engineers, but just wondering if the public

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may have I don't know if someone out there probably

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came across out data and they thought, well, yeah, they're

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getting cheap labor, and of course it has to be competitive,

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especially and you know, again I have been an employer,

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and I do know that. Listen, if you stay a

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salary in publicly and is plubbly available, everybody has to

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be you know, offered the same wage, at least the

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same starting wage, and then you know, move up from there.

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So I understand that I was just wondering if you

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thought that might that that issue that I brought up

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may have been part of that misperception. Is I guess

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how I should have worded it as to whether or

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not they're really paying for cheap labor. I don't believe

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that's the case. Is but I do want to ask

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you this, is there a myth? Is it okay? Is

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this a myth with with an H one visa, for example?

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Is is there a contract between the employer employee as

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for a certain amount of time? Is that true?

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Sure? Yes, that's that's actually part of the application process

255
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where you have an off letter or a contract that

256
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spells out the terms of the employment. H one vs

257
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can be part time, and the contract would specify that,

258
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but the actual application form would also specify if it's

259
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part time of full time. The boxes on the forms

260
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ask specifically full time, part time wages, hourly, annual, monthly,

261
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whatever the way it is. And so that's a contract

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and the employer actually has to contract with whatever else

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they're doing they have. There's a lot of compliance involved

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where if they are applying for a NACHU one B,

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the employer has to post a copy of the quote

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unquote wage promise that we just talked about in an

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inconspicuous place in their office for ten days so everybody

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can see it. So if anybody is, you know, feeling

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like there's an issue, they can most definitely complain. But

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it's there is a process for this and it has

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to be open and that posting is a very important

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part of it to make sure there's visibilit and compliance

273
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and then all of those forms get signed by them.

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But I guess my question was more about the time.

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I guess I should have been more clear about the

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question in my questioning was, Okay, does the employer enter

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contract with the person who is to be contracted under

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this H one visa? As in their sponsor them. So

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does that mean that they're committed to this company like

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that person's also committed this company and working for them

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for let's say two years, three years, four years, five years.

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Is that true of an H one as well?

283
00:17:35.559 --> 00:17:39.160
Very good question. So, uh, the employment contract will look

284
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exactly the same as it would for you and me

285
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if we were hired. Gotcha, So the employment contract wouldn't

286
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look necessarily different. It might have an additional couple of

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paragraphs saying subject to approval of your H one B,

288
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but H one b's initially will be or any any

289
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H one can be issued for up to three years, okay,

290
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but total time that we can have on an H

291
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one B is six years. So they can they have

292
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to first get into a lottery, and the lottery period

293
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is opening up March seventh to twenty fourth this year,

294
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and if somebody is selected in the lottery, then they

295
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don't have to be in the lottery again once you

296
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know Employer A has has gone through the lottery. HAN

297
00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:28.279
sponsored them and they worked for Company A, even if

298
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it's for one day. You know, we're looking at a

299
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lot of layoffs these days, which are you know, bringing

300
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up different types of nuanced problems. But as long as

301
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they worked for company A, they can move to company

302
00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:44.640
BCDEFG as many times as they want without being in

303
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the lottery. But only up to six years in total.

304
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And there are people in the US who have been

305
00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:54.960
on H one b's for much longer than six years,

306
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but only if some technical steps have been taken towards

307
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the cards.

308
00:19:02.359 --> 00:19:06.000
So okay, let's go over that then. So when they're

309
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six years is up, for example, what's the process for

310
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them to be able to remain in the United States

311
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for a longer period and continue to work.

312
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Yeah. Really, this is something that employers struggle with because

313
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planning has to happen way in advance of the six years. Okay,

314
00:19:23.079 --> 00:19:26.759
in the don't have to necessarily test the market. You're

315
00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:32.039
making the wage promise and you're having certain compliance issues,

316
00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:35.960
but you're not testing the market because it's a temporary position.

317
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But if you are going to sponsor that person for

318
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a permanent position, you have to test the market to

319
00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:49.000
ensure that no American worker has been left out before

320
00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:52.880
you offer that job for a foreign worker. Now, to

321
00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:57.119
test the market, there are many steps that have to

322
00:19:57.160 --> 00:20:00.880
be taken. First, you have to ensure or the Department

323
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of Labor believes that this is the right wage job.

324
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So you have apply and Department of Labor might take

325
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eight nine to twelve months give permission on that wage.

326
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Then in your local area with the main newspaper of

327
00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:22.799
that area, including three other ways of advertising. So the

328
00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:26.880
government wants to see that you've made a bona fide effort,

329
00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:32.200
a real effort to advertise the position, and that has

330
00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:35.839
to be advertised for at least thirty days, and then

331
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you have to wait thirty days to applications. Now, if

332
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somebody applies for the job who has the minimum experience required,

333
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the employer cannot move forward with the application unless he

334
00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:55.119
hires this person or they hire this person and continue

335
00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:59.039
with the other position. So if you've tested the market

336
00:20:59.079 --> 00:21:02.880
and somebody exists, you can't go forward with that application.

337
00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:05.920
And so there you can't go forward with the H

338
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:07.839
one B application.

339
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Not the H one B. It's called a permanent labor certification,

340
00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:12.440
a permanent.

341
00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:13.799
Application, ah, got it.

342
00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:17.880
And so there are many steps that the employer has

343
00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:21.400
to take to test the market before they can make

344
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that permanent application.

345
00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:25.680
Okay, so they can't they can't convert this into a

346
00:21:25.720 --> 00:21:30.480
permanent status of work unless they can prove that, yeah,

347
00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:32.799
we literally couldn't find any other candidate in the marketplace

348
00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:33.440
to fill the position.

349
00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:39.240
That's correct. That's correct, And when that application gets to

350
00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:46.279
it has many steps, many different timelines, and many different

351
00:21:46.599 --> 00:21:49.200
points of potential failure.

352
00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:53.440
Okay, so, so how soon should should an employee a

353
00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:55.480
non employe, I'm sorry, an employer, I mean, how soon

354
00:21:55.480 --> 00:21:59.000
should an employer be taking these necessary steps to make

355
00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:01.880
sure that they're doing the right thing before they get

356
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:05.519
to the point of that person or that said employee

357
00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:07.759
they're H one expiring.

358
00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:15.200
Really great question, George B. A lot of employers will

359
00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:19.960
wait until the first three years have gone by, and

360
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:23.920
then they'll start thinking about it. Because if the green

361
00:22:23.960 --> 00:22:29.000
card application, the permanent labor certification application has not been

362
00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:32.319
pending for one year or more, they cannot extend the

363
00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:35.759
H one B beyond the six years. So there's a

364
00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:38.839
lot of counting back and counting forwards to see when

365
00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:43.839
you do these steps. And because it's very complicated and

366
00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:49.279
not cheap, the process is expensive, employers don't necessarily want

367
00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:52.400
to do this until they have to. But there are

368
00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:55.599
a lot of employees chainly start the process as soon

369
00:22:55.640 --> 00:22:59.799
as the H one B application has been approved because

370
00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:04.640
they know all of these steps will take time, and

371
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:09.599
often these timelines can't be controlled. So for example, when

372
00:23:10.759 --> 00:23:17.519
during the first Trump presidency, everything was backlogged significantly and

373
00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:20.680
it took four years for the Biden administration to reduce

374
00:23:20.759 --> 00:23:27.279
timelines in various different application processes. And so employers have

375
00:23:27.319 --> 00:23:34.160
to be mindful that these timelines can can change and

376
00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:36.920
go back and forth. And this is not just the timeline,

377
00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:41.039
this is just the processing to get the green card.

378
00:23:42.519 --> 00:23:45.720
That's a different type of calculation and an assessment altogether.

379
00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:52.160
If you're from India, China, Philippines, Mexico, the waiting time

380
00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:56.880
for people born in these countries is signif longer for

381
00:23:57.000 --> 00:24:01.359
people who than people who are born in a or

382
00:24:02.319 --> 00:24:03.119
somewhere in Europe.

383
00:24:04.119 --> 00:24:07.160
Can you repeat that? It kind of dropped, So people

384
00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:13.400
born in India, Mexico, you know, basically China or China, Okay,

385
00:24:13.480 --> 00:24:15.279
so longer period for them than it would be for

386
00:24:15.319 --> 00:24:18.400
someone born in Canada and where else anywhere else in

387
00:24:18.440 --> 00:24:19.839
the world, Oh, just anywhere.

388
00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:24.480
Yes. What happens is the United States Green Card system

389
00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:30.039
has a limit every year, and the annual limit is

390
00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:33.240
one hundred and forty thousand Green cards each year for

391
00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:36.480
employment based applications?

392
00:24:36.599 --> 00:24:39.599
Is that total for the United States or per employer?

393
00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:44.440
It's a total for anybody trying to get an employment

394
00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:48.079
based green card. So an employer might sponsor you, you

395
00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:52.000
might sponsor yourself. There are one you categories in which

396
00:24:52.039 --> 00:24:55.000
you can do that, but they all fall under one

397
00:24:55.079 --> 00:24:58.559
hundred and forty thousand, which is never enough for Green

398
00:24:58.599 --> 00:25:02.839
card applications. And so these one hundred and forty green

399
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:09.119
cards are then divided into seven percent quotas for each

400
00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:10.440
country in the world.

401
00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:13.200
Ah okay, And so if.

402
00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:17.400
You have a country with a large population, there's a

403
00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:20.279
longer waiting time because they're all fitting into the seven

404
00:25:20.279 --> 00:25:21.079
percent quota.

405
00:25:22.279 --> 00:25:28.160
So then okay, So the permanent right to work, Let's

406
00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:30.319
say someone gets that status, what does that do for

407
00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:34.680
their immigration status or here in the United States, because

408
00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:36.279
it sounds like you still have to go through the

409
00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:38.640
process of even getting a green card? What does that

410
00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:41.200
do for that person? And still are they then could

411
00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:45.240
they be considered a permanent resident? Because I'm foggy on that.

412
00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:47.000
So can are you able to explain that?

413
00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:52.119
You're asking some really fantastic questions, George? Until somebody gets

414
00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:56.200
their green card in their hands. They are not a

415
00:25:56.240 --> 00:26:00.799
permanent resident here, got it? And you have to maintain

416
00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:06.119
your visa status throughout that time and that green card

417
00:26:06.119 --> 00:26:10.359
application with the technicalities I mentioned about certain times and

418
00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:15.960
certain applications unless you get to and approved what's called

419
00:26:16.039 --> 00:26:21.240
I one forty, where the employer has fulfilled their market

420
00:26:21.319 --> 00:26:25.839
testing exercise and proven to the Department of Homeland Security

421
00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:30.480
saying I couldn't find somebody. I'm sponsoring Joe blog. Until

422
00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:33.559
somebody gets to that point, they cannot extend their H

423
00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:36.880
one bs for three years at a time, and a

424
00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:39.640
lot of people in this country are in that situation. Yeah,

425
00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:42.400
and so you have to have that employer continuously sponsor

426
00:26:42.440 --> 00:26:47.119
you for the H one B. Now, one of the scenarios, George,

427
00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:50.119
you might have seen over the last few years is

428
00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:54.759
the technology industry has seen a lot of layoffs. And

429
00:26:55.839 --> 00:27:00.200
California's seen the layoffs, Washington stat has seen them over

430
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:01.319
the country. People have been laving.

431
00:27:01.400 --> 00:27:04.000
Yeah, Google and Apple just got rid of a lot

432
00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:05.160
of people a couple of years ago.

433
00:27:05.839 --> 00:27:08.640
That's right. And it actually happened in twenty twenty five

434
00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:09.559
already too.

435
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:10.960
It did. I didn't realize that.

436
00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:14.599
Yeah, it's happening, it's not necessarily hitting the news in

437
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:16.920
the same way because there are so many other things

438
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:19.440
that I keeping you distracted.

439
00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:22.119
It's a chaotic twenty twenty five right now, Oh.

440
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:26.480
My gosh, so much chaos. But if you have lost

441
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:32.480
that job, your H one B has gone, but also

442
00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:37.640
that green cut application that your employer filed has also gone.

443
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:43.119
Right, So what happens to that person who because this

444
00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:48.640
person who's working is doing so legally right, they're legally

445
00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:51.400
here because their employer has sponsored them to be here,

446
00:27:51.960 --> 00:27:55.160
and they it's been determined that, look, we can't find

447
00:27:55.160 --> 00:27:56.880
anyone in the market with your skills, so we need

448
00:27:56.920 --> 00:27:59.759
you here. Well, what happens to that person when they

449
00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:02.839
get stuck in this in between status where you know,

450
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:04.960
like you said, there's only so many green cards available, right,

451
00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:08.359
one hundred and forty seven percent divided by seven percent

452
00:28:08.359 --> 00:28:11.119
among other countries, et cetera. But then what happens to

453
00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:13.000
that individual where they get stuck in that middle where

454
00:28:13.039 --> 00:28:15.640
it's like, oh, well, you know, we're kind of stuck.

455
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:17.839
We can't get you the green card, or or they

456
00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:20.279
couldn't make it happen to where they could extend to

457
00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:23.079
a permanent work status. What happens to that individual.

458
00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:30.279
Really complicated, And interestingly enough, I appear in a New

459
00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:34.079
York Times story, so if anybody is interested, they can

460
00:28:34.200 --> 00:28:36.160
google my name in New York Times and there's a

461
00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:40.720
story about some people who were laid off and what

462
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:42.960
they had to do. So there are some more details

463
00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:47.920
in that particular article. But in essence, remember we talked

464
00:28:47.960 --> 00:28:50.680
about the temporary visa and the permanent visa. Yes, the

465
00:28:50.720 --> 00:28:53.680
temporary visa is what allows you to remain in the

466
00:28:53.839 --> 00:28:57.880
United States, so one must always have if you're on

467
00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:00.799
a work visa or employment based in a greation system,

468
00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:06.240
you want to maintain status with a temporary visa, the

469
00:29:06.279 --> 00:29:09.960
green card application that the employer might have filed and

470
00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:14.680
you met that certain stage, you can keep your position

471
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:19.720
in that quote unquote line. But a new employer has

472
00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:22.240
to go through the entire exercise all over again.

473
00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:25.279
A new employer so different, so that person would have

474
00:29:25.279 --> 00:29:27.200
to work for somebody else at that point.

475
00:29:27.519 --> 00:29:32.079
Yes, or I, or if if the current employer is

476
00:29:32.119 --> 00:29:36.759
giving you a new job because they're shuffling or restructuring

477
00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:41.240
within their own you know, entity and organization, they too

478
00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:44.880
have to file a new application. Because these permanent positions

479
00:29:44.920 --> 00:29:51.519
are for specific positions, there could be some slight changes

480
00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:53.200
to keep that green.

481
00:29:54.400 --> 00:29:55.920
It does sound like someone could get caught in the

482
00:29:55.960 --> 00:29:59.960
middle of the timing though, right, because yes, you know

483
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:01.640
up to six years, as you said earlier on in

484
00:30:01.799 --> 00:30:04.519
h one, and even if even by year three, let's

485
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:07.759
say they're already working on working on trying to get

486
00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:10.920
that employee to be a permanent worker status, but then

487
00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:13.720
there's only one hundred and forty thousand green cards. I'm

488
00:30:13.799 --> 00:30:16.559
just I'm just in my mind seeing where this can

489
00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:19.759
be an issue at times, it is an issue.

490
00:30:19.480 --> 00:30:20.079
All the time.

491
00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:21.000
Totally.

492
00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:26.440
You've hit the nail exactly where it matters, and that

493
00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:32.079
waiting time is incredibly important to understand because that gets

494
00:30:32.839 --> 00:30:35.240
that becomes part of the assessment of when you file

495
00:30:35.319 --> 00:30:39.279
somebody's green card because people from India, for example, they

496
00:30:39.519 --> 00:30:44.920
there are calculations and many reports written. One if anybody's looking,

497
00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:50.720
you can look up Cato c Ato which is a

498
00:30:50.759 --> 00:30:53.000
think tank and they have done a lot of studies

499
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:55.400
and so you will look in one of their reports,

500
00:30:55.519 --> 00:30:58.359
just google it and the reports go through a lot

501
00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:02.039
of different you know, methods of doing these analysis and

502
00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:07.880
they found that anybody in from India in this backlog,

503
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:12.000
often will have to wait seventy plus years to get

504
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:13.960
their green cards.

505
00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:21.559
Yeah that's crazy, Yeah, that's crazy. What's really really quickly though,

506
00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:26.279
let's let's define the difference because I wanted to know

507
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:29.359
the difference also between you were talking about the categories.

508
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:32.559
So what's difference between one and two? Like H one

509
00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:34.000
H two.

510
00:31:34.119 --> 00:31:37.640
Really good question. So H one B is, as I

511
00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:40.920
mentioned earlier, you must have a degree to do the

512
00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:43.839
job that that degree allows you to do, and the

513
00:31:43.880 --> 00:31:45.240
employer has that degree.

514
00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:49.559
So a degree within a particular discipline, right.

515
00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:53.799
Exactly, that's exactly right. And the H two B and

516
00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:57.400
the H two A these are seasonal visas where you

517
00:31:57.519 --> 00:32:01.599
don't need a degree. The H two A is essentially

518
00:32:01.640 --> 00:32:05.960
for agriculture. And so when you see people coming here

519
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:11.119
to pick our apples, you know, potatoes, you know, get

520
00:32:11.480 --> 00:32:13.240
salmon for example. Picture.

521
00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:15.640
Yeah, I was very familiar with H two A and

522
00:32:15.640 --> 00:32:18.240
and and how it was used, but I was always

523
00:32:18.279 --> 00:32:21.039
unfamiliar with how they classify, you know, one versus two.

524
00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:22.680
And then there's there's there's one a.

525
00:32:23.079 --> 00:32:26.440
H one B is the one that we talked about, right.

526
00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:28.319
There is there an H one A or is it

527
00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:29.240
just H one there.

528
00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:33.039
Is you know there is H one C okay, which

529
00:32:33.079 --> 00:32:37.240
is the nurses. It's not something I have generally used.

530
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:41.039
The HB is typically the one that is used the most,

531
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:44.599
but the H three as well. So the H two

532
00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:49.920
A is agriculture. H two B is for seasonal, intermittent

533
00:32:50.359 --> 00:32:54.240
or one time work. So if you see people at.

534
00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:57.680
So as you said earlier that the letter denotes the

535
00:32:57.839 --> 00:32:59.119
type of field.

536
00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:03.240
That's it exactly right. So the H two B has

537
00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:07.799
three types seasonal work, intermittent work, or one time work.

538
00:33:08.279 --> 00:33:11.559
And if you look at the ski resorts, for example,

539
00:33:12.519 --> 00:33:16.880
they likely use the H two B. It's very commonly

540
00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:20.000
known that President Trump at is mar A Lago Estate

541
00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:23.880
uses H to B for you know a lot of

542
00:33:23.880 --> 00:33:28.000
the workers that come to the resort, and these are

543
00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:33.039
seasonal workers, and these two have quotas. The H two

544
00:33:33.039 --> 00:33:37.200
B has quotas and so and the age three visa

545
00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:40.799
is for people training who don't have training in their

546
00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:44.039
home country are coming to the United States to learn

547
00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:47.839
a skill that they wouldn't have otherwise. But proving whether

548
00:33:47.880 --> 00:33:50.279
it's H two A or B or three or H

549
00:33:50.359 --> 00:33:53.880
one B, it's all about the paperwork. And all of

550
00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:58.200
the various complicated procedures. So you said you're familiar with

551
00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:01.559
the H two A. There are times for it. I

552
00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:04.799
must have done, you know, things in advance to be

553
00:34:04.839 --> 00:34:08.000
able to jump into the you know, application process for

554
00:34:08.119 --> 00:34:10.480
the H to be or H u A. It's it's

555
00:34:10.599 --> 00:34:14.559
not simple, and there aren't that many lawyers who file

556
00:34:14.599 --> 00:34:17.320
AH to be an HUOA compared to the H one BS.

557
00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:22.119
Yeah, that's I mean, so there, there's there's a lot

558
00:34:22.239 --> 00:34:26.519
going on to what what an H one or H

559
00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:31.039
two visa does for somebody. And I needed I needed

560
00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:35.519
you to mean to explain all this because especially when

561
00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:37.840
you go on social media, people don't understand what they're

562
00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:41.119
used for. It's it's a legal right for someone to work,

563
00:34:41.320 --> 00:34:43.559
and there's a reason why that person's being brought in

564
00:34:43.599 --> 00:34:47.440
for this particular type of work, and everybody, everybody just

565
00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:51.559
seems to automatically think the worst. You know, it's always

566
00:34:51.559 --> 00:34:54.320
a negative forever for the United States, for example, when

567
00:34:54.400 --> 00:34:56.920
it's not the case, but it can be a negative

568
00:34:56.920 --> 00:34:58.679
for the person gets stuck in the middle or gets

569
00:34:58.679 --> 00:35:00.800
caught in between those timelines that you were talking about.

570
00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:04.920
So yeah, totally, and you know, one of the reasons

571
00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:08.360
that there is a lot of concern is the the

572
00:35:08.440 --> 00:35:10.599
people who come to the United States on the H

573
00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:15.159
two A or H two B visa program are similar

574
00:35:15.159 --> 00:35:19.840
to the people who often undocumented doing this work. And

575
00:35:19.960 --> 00:35:28.599
so if you look at some of the agricultural workers

576
00:35:28.679 --> 00:35:32.679
and farm workers, you may find people who are not

577
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:36.960
on actual H two visas, and that's where a lot

578
00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:41.679
of the controversy it's from. But A, we don't have

579
00:35:41.880 --> 00:35:46.079
enough of those visas, and b there aren't enough American

580
00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:49.480
workers to go and do back in the sun rain,

581
00:35:49.880 --> 00:35:54.280
you know, on farms, and so you know, if you

582
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:57.519
were to ever think about doing a follow up podcast

583
00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:01.679
on these issues, maybe interviewed somebody who owns a farm

584
00:36:01.960 --> 00:36:04.800
and will tell you they see every day.

585
00:36:05.400 --> 00:36:08.440
Well so, but that opens up an entirely different conversation

586
00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:11.719
because now we're talking about Now we're talking about not

587
00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:13.960
necessarily whether people want to do the jobs, is whether

588
00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:15.920
they want to do them for the wages being offered,

589
00:36:17.119 --> 00:36:20.480
and so now we're talking about competitiveness in the market.

590
00:36:21.039 --> 00:36:23.679
And the other reason why people have been upset is

591
00:36:23.679 --> 00:36:26.239
because you know, look, there's many people who said, sure,

592
00:36:26.599 --> 00:36:29.719
I'll go pick cherries, for example, if it paid thirty

593
00:36:29.719 --> 00:36:32.119
five dollars an hour for you know, we know that's

594
00:36:32.159 --> 00:36:35.239
not the wage for that particular position, but that's been

595
00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:39.519
the argument. And so once we started outsourcing labor again,

596
00:36:39.519 --> 00:36:41.760
That's why I said, this is a different conversation. And

597
00:36:41.800 --> 00:36:44.639
you're bringing in labor from outside while they're getting they

598
00:36:44.679 --> 00:36:48.039
are getting paid the wages according to the market, and

599
00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:51.639
what is a standard wage in the guidelines of how

600
00:36:51.639 --> 00:36:54.119
the government says you should pay someone for a particular position.

601
00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:57.280
Those positions in of themselves have been watered down and

602
00:36:57.280 --> 00:37:01.320
degraded to a lower pain. That is, versus if they

603
00:37:01.320 --> 00:37:04.599
were paying for somebody else, like you said, you know,

604
00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:06.719
someone someone here. Let's just say a white guy. You know,

605
00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:08.719
some white guy wants to go Picturey's. You know that

606
00:37:08.760 --> 00:37:10.519
he's probably not gonna go do it because he doesn't

607
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:12.039
he's not gonna do it for that amount of money.

608
00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:13.480
So I don't know if I don't know if it's

609
00:37:13.480 --> 00:37:15.360
an argument of whether or not people are afraid to

610
00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:16.719
do the work or they just don't want to do

611
00:37:16.760 --> 00:37:19.920
the work because they don't think it's worth what it's paying.

612
00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:23.679
My job, Okay, so for my business, I'll bring this up.

613
00:37:23.679 --> 00:37:27.239
For example, we're in the events industry. So there's times

614
00:37:27.559 --> 00:37:30.119
I work with everybody. I don't care what race country

615
00:37:30.119 --> 00:37:32.119
you're from. You know, if you're a professional and you

616
00:37:32.119 --> 00:37:33.760
know your stuff, and I don't have to hold your hand,

617
00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:36.039
we're good. I just don't want to worry about whether

618
00:37:36.119 --> 00:37:38.079
or not you're getting the job done. And I have

619
00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:41.960
people that are extremely good at their jobs. I mean

620
00:37:42.079 --> 00:37:44.079
no way more than I do, and they should. And

621
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:47.039
I'm a white guy and I and I know people

622
00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:49.840
that are Mexican, I know people that are Indian that

623
00:37:49.880 --> 00:37:51.599
are all in this particular industry, and we all network

624
00:37:51.639 --> 00:37:53.239
with each other. We keep each other going, and we

625
00:37:53.320 --> 00:37:59.599
keep each other paid. But we are working hard. Okay, now, now,

626
00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:02.400
what I'm I'm trying to get at is all summer.

627
00:38:02.599 --> 00:38:05.440
I am in one hundred and five plus weather for

628
00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:09.159
sixteen eighteen hours every day working. I'm doing it because

629
00:38:09.159 --> 00:38:10.920
I'm getting paid to do it. I'm getting paid well,

630
00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:12.960
and I pay everybody who works for me well because

631
00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:16.840
they're specialists within that that industry. But when we're talking

632
00:38:16.840 --> 00:38:19.159
about people in the fields, they're not treated the same.

633
00:38:19.599 --> 00:38:22.280
And I think that is the issue that we have,

634
00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:24.960
and that's why most people say, yeah, I'm not going

635
00:38:25.039 --> 00:38:27.679
to go pick those cherries or cut that lawn because

636
00:38:27.719 --> 00:38:29.400
I'm not getting paid enough for me to go out

637
00:38:29.400 --> 00:38:32.000
there and sweat. And maybe we need to change the

638
00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:36.880
perception of how people view hard work and labor in

639
00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:39.400
the United States. Maybe it's just a matter of retraining

640
00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:45.000
people or holding the industries accountable for making the wages livable.

641
00:38:45.559 --> 00:38:46.920
What do you think of that?

642
00:38:46.920 --> 00:38:50.239
That's a really I mean, it's such a complicated mulant

643
00:38:50.519 --> 00:38:55.920
situation that not just America but probably other countries grapple with.

644
00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:59.679
It's about the industry, right, I mean, let's say you know,

645
00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:02.440
you're a farm owner. Let's just take an example of

646
00:39:02.480 --> 00:39:05.360
a farm owner and he's, you know, he's got a

647
00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:09.559
seasonal sort of cherry picking and he's got to make

648
00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:12.480
sure the cherries hit the grocery store where we're you

649
00:39:12.519 --> 00:39:14.960
and I are gonna go buy, you know, a pound

650
00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:19.239
of cherries for maybe six ninety nine. How much is

651
00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:24.119
he actually making? You know that that business there's a

652
00:39:24.159 --> 00:39:28.960
common misconception, and there are different businesses, different issues. Okay,

653
00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:35.960
but what does the standard farm business make and what

654
00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:40.000
is the salary that's necessary to do that? Now, if

655
00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:44.800
they're paying thirty five dollars an hour for a particular

656
00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:48.840
position in which they're actually losing forty dollars an hour.

657
00:39:50.119 --> 00:39:52.559
How are they actually going to keep that business going.

658
00:39:53.559 --> 00:39:57.079
You know, it's it's very it's a very complicated situation.

659
00:39:57.280 --> 00:40:01.199
We do need livable wages in this country. The Liverpool

660
00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:06.400
wages question comes up in childcare, in teaching, in construction.

661
00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:11.440
It's not related to the farm, farm workers and the farm.

662
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:17.000
But the answer, you know, I don't necessarily have a

663
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:22.159
good answer for you, because you know, it's just it's

664
00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:25.199
way it's way too complicated to go into. But I

665
00:40:25.239 --> 00:40:29.360
will say this to you. I have had clients who

666
00:40:29.440 --> 00:40:35.119
own construction companies and home care, you know, nursing homes

667
00:40:35.199 --> 00:40:39.119
where people are trying to get into hospice care, so

668
00:40:39.239 --> 00:40:41.719
to speak. Because you know, our medical industry has its

669
00:40:41.719 --> 00:40:45.320
own very big problems. And so when they want to

670
00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:50.519
hire people for the construction industry or the you know,

671
00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:54.760
nursing home that he cannot find American workers. And one

672
00:40:54.760 --> 00:40:56.920
particular business owner said to me, to me, now, I

673
00:40:57.000 --> 00:40:59.719
was going to pay him exactly what he wanted. He

674
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:03.199
showed up, he didn't know which side the hammer was

675
00:41:03.280 --> 00:41:03.920
up or down.

676
00:41:05.559 --> 00:41:08.480
I've seen that I've seen that.

677
00:41:08.760 --> 00:41:13.440
So so you're going to pay somebody, you know, a

678
00:41:13.559 --> 00:41:15.960
very high wage for not knowing how to do the

679
00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:17.079
job you just said.

680
00:41:17.280 --> 00:41:20.239
True, But that's also that I think that also has

681
00:41:20.519 --> 00:41:24.239
that also is a reflection of how our culture has

682
00:41:24.360 --> 00:41:27.440
changed over the years. It went from it went from

683
00:41:27.480 --> 00:41:29.760
being proud of working hard and using your hands to

684
00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:33.400
playing video games and doing other things to make a living.

685
00:41:34.119 --> 00:41:37.880
So that could just be generational or cultural shift versus

686
00:41:37.880 --> 00:41:39.239
what it used to be able to say back in

687
00:41:39.239 --> 00:41:42.519
the forties and fifties and so on. But I'm not

688
00:41:42.599 --> 00:41:45.280
I'm not arguing. I'm just I'm just asking the question,

689
00:41:45.400 --> 00:41:46.880
you know what I'm saying that I think.

690
00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:51.119
It's a great question because these are provocative thought thought

691
00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:56.800
provocative issues that if we don't discuss them in an amicable,

692
00:41:57.400 --> 00:42:02.039
you know, loving way, how would listeners even think about it? Twice?

693
00:42:02.440 --> 00:42:07.039
You know? And the correlation to that is are we

694
00:42:07.159 --> 00:42:10.400
really developing the workforce that we need for this country?

695
00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:13.920
Do we have enough vocation, no training for people who

696
00:42:14.239 --> 00:42:17.840
can't go to our schools they can't afford, you know,

697
00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:21.440
the education costs that are required. Are we giving them

698
00:42:21.519 --> 00:42:26.079
vocational tools and schools? You know, plumbing or becoming electician.

699
00:42:26.599 --> 00:42:29.719
You know, are we doing enough of that? Are we

700
00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:34.639
putting enough emphasis on stam education at kindergarten level so

701
00:42:34.679 --> 00:42:39.000
that the next generation of workforce can do the jobs

702
00:42:39.039 --> 00:42:41.079
that H one B workers are doing well?

703
00:42:41.320 --> 00:42:43.559
The other questions, are we going out of our way

704
00:42:43.599 --> 00:42:46.559
to make those certain positions, whether they be the hands

705
00:42:46.559 --> 00:42:50.159
on positions you mentioned earlier or the professional positions, or

706
00:42:50.239 --> 00:42:52.199
are we doing enough to make them attractive to people

707
00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:54.519
to want to do it? I mean, is it a

708
00:42:54.559 --> 00:42:56.000
marketing issue?

709
00:42:57.199 --> 00:43:00.760
Well, totally, it's so complex, George.

710
00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:03.119
What it is it is we really need.

711
00:43:03.039 --> 00:43:09.000
The entire society to come together and say we see

712
00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:12.880
a solution this way. If we don't find the solutions ourselves,

713
00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:17.119
and we're not invested in the solutions that we're not

714
00:43:17.199 --> 00:43:21.599
speaking up about what each group of people needs, we're

715
00:43:21.639 --> 00:43:23.719
never going to have the solution, and we're going to

716
00:43:23.719 --> 00:43:27.400
get railroaded by executive orders by a handful of people

717
00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:30.920
who have the money and power to influence everybody else

718
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:34.159
and point out these are the problems, but not necessarily

719
00:43:34.239 --> 00:43:36.320
come up with real working solutions.

720
00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:40.760
Well, yeah, and the problem with the solution it needs

721
00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:45.239
a solutions aren't overnight then it needs a very well

722
00:43:45.320 --> 00:43:49.400
thought out, tested, qualified plan that needs to be put

723
00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:51.679
in place. And actually when that is put in place,

724
00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:54.239
you need to stick to it and not be distracted

725
00:43:54.239 --> 00:43:56.920
and go off course. And I don't think that's something

726
00:43:56.920 --> 00:44:00.199
that has been done. It's we seem very reactionary when

727
00:44:00.199 --> 00:44:02.800
it comes to when it comes to the workforce in

728
00:44:02.840 --> 00:44:06.400
America and to the markets in general, we're reactionary. There's

729
00:44:06.440 --> 00:44:08.320
not a lot of planning really. I mean, you could

730
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:12.360
argue that. Sure, in a business, you have you plan

731
00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:15.639
your finances, your income versus your overhead. You know, like

732
00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:17.360
you know your net versus your gross, et cetera, how

733
00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:19.719
much margin you're making on a sale bunch, your percentages

734
00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:21.440
of this and that, and you can go through your

735
00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:24.599
sales cycles versus so you know, hey, in Christmas, I

736
00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:26.760
know this is going to be huge for me, and

737
00:44:26.800 --> 00:44:28.960
then after Christmas it's gonna die down. We're gonna take

738
00:44:28.960 --> 00:44:31.400
some hits because it returns and it's et cetera. Now

739
00:44:31.559 --> 00:44:34.440
that's just data. You're just taking all that in strapolading

740
00:44:34.480 --> 00:44:36.480
it and you're analyzing it and then you can make

741
00:44:36.519 --> 00:44:42.360
certain predictions. But are you truly truly planning for the future?

742
00:44:42.400 --> 00:44:45.400
Of the actual industry or the workforce down the road,

743
00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:48.960
because fast forward here we are. Now we're finding less

744
00:44:49.000 --> 00:44:52.559
and less qualified individuals in the United States to do

745
00:44:52.599 --> 00:44:54.280
these positions that we need.

746
00:44:54.199 --> 00:45:02.960
Filled totally, totally, and it's a conversation that everybody should

747
00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:07.559
be having. And so I'm so glad you're leading the way,

748
00:45:07.719 --> 00:45:10.840
and I'm trying to make sure people get to hear

749
00:45:11.000 --> 00:45:15.159
some of these things. It's just imperative, you know.

750
00:45:15.760 --> 00:45:18.760
I just I just look at things. I'm just, you know,

751
00:45:18.920 --> 00:45:21.519
nothing special about me, Okay, I'm just an individual that

752
00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:24.440
I take it in. I look at what's going on,

753
00:45:24.880 --> 00:45:27.239
and I'm in quisitive. I have to ask these questions.

754
00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:29.559
I think most people have these questions on their mind,

755
00:45:29.599 --> 00:45:32.159
but they don't speak out. They don't ask, they don't

756
00:45:32.159 --> 00:45:34.400
talk about it. They just kind of go, well, that's sad,

757
00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:35.760
and they sweep it under the rug and they just

758
00:45:35.840 --> 00:45:39.800
keep moving on with their life. Nobody's really having these

759
00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:41.920
conversations except for maybe people like you, because this is

760
00:45:41.920 --> 00:45:44.239
what you do for a living and you see it

761
00:45:44.559 --> 00:45:47.519
all the time, especially when it relates to you know,

762
00:45:47.599 --> 00:45:50.360
immigrants and having to deal with these these work visas.

763
00:45:50.599 --> 00:45:53.360
So you see it first hand. But most people, most

764
00:45:53.480 --> 00:45:56.079
average people do not see this or even deal with this.

765
00:45:56.519 --> 00:45:58.639
They just rely on what's going on in social media

766
00:45:58.679 --> 00:46:01.880
to tell them what's going on. And unfortunately that's not

767
00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:04.039
the way to go about getting your information.

768
00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:08.679
Yeah, but you know, love people to just think about

769
00:46:08.760 --> 00:46:11.800
for a second. You might not need you might not

770
00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:16.199
visibly be seeing the high skilled workers in your life,

771
00:46:17.480 --> 00:46:20.320
but the high skilled workers are behind almost everything that

772
00:46:20.360 --> 00:46:24.280
you're doing. If you're at the office working on Zoom,

773
00:46:24.679 --> 00:46:28.559
a high skilled immigrant founded Zoom. If you're on your

774
00:46:28.639 --> 00:46:33.119
phone using WhatsApp or Instagram, uh, these are you know,

775
00:46:33.159 --> 00:46:36.400
as I mentioned before, the hardware software network in your phone,

776
00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:40.599
they're being managed immigrants. You know, if you go to

777
00:46:40.679 --> 00:46:45.039
the grocery store and you're seeing the shiny apples on

778
00:46:45.800 --> 00:46:49.639
the shelves, immigrants are likely picking them. If you're getting

779
00:46:49.639 --> 00:46:53.679
the milk seamlessly appearing on your table on your shelf,

780
00:46:54.320 --> 00:46:58.119
immigrants are likely milking the cow or however they operate

781
00:46:58.199 --> 00:47:01.159
dairy stuff. If you're finding the toilet paper in the

782
00:47:01.159 --> 00:47:04.400
grocery store, is because an immigrant is likely driving that truck,

783
00:47:05.320 --> 00:47:08.800
which you know, obviously was very very prevalent as or

784
00:47:08.880 --> 00:47:15.119
exposed was exposed during the pandemic. Immigrants are actually the

785
00:47:15.159 --> 00:47:20.079
fabric of our society, and because it's much of it

786
00:47:19.599 --> 00:47:23.719
is invisible, those who are just living lives and you know,

787
00:47:23.800 --> 00:47:28.159
day to day doing or whatever they're doing. It's not apparent,

788
00:47:28.719 --> 00:47:31.400
but if we didn't have the immigrants, life would be

789
00:47:31.480 --> 00:47:34.960
falling apart, and that day may be coming soon. Who knows.

790
00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:38.440
I hope I haven't jinxed us, but it doesn't take

791
00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:40.519
me to jinx us. You know that the executive orders

792
00:47:40.519 --> 00:47:41.199
alone will do it.

793
00:47:41.440 --> 00:47:44.400
I think what gets a little convoluted and everything is

794
00:47:44.440 --> 00:47:49.079
people trying to trying to throw a blanket over the

795
00:47:49.119 --> 00:47:52.360
word immigrant, you know, versus those who I don't know

796
00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:53.920
how you want to phrase it. I know everyone does

797
00:47:53.920 --> 00:47:57.639
it differently, undocumented, legal, whatever, But I'm just gonna say

798
00:47:57.719 --> 00:48:02.639
legal immigrants versus legal people were legally here. And I'm

799
00:48:02.679 --> 00:48:05.599
not sure your feelings because you see firsthand families that

800
00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:11.159
have to go through this, But what what how do

801
00:48:11.199 --> 00:48:13.679
we how do we move forward in handling those who

802
00:48:13.760 --> 00:48:18.039
are here illegally but are trying to be here because

803
00:48:18.039 --> 00:48:20.840
they're trying to make a better life for themselves. And again,

804
00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:23.000
I'm I'm gonna keep the politics out of it because

805
00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:26.960
I know, I know that there are other conversations we

806
00:48:27.079 --> 00:48:29.960
had with this, to be quite honest, and I've done

807
00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:32.760
a lot of research that comes straight from the Border

808
00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:36.000
Patrols data. So I've seen it all, and I've done

809
00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:37.840
more than one show on this. So there's not much

810
00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:39.440
you can say about it that I probably wouldn't know

811
00:48:39.519 --> 00:48:43.119
or could tell you. But yeah, but for those who

812
00:48:43.199 --> 00:48:45.079
are trying to do it the right way. And and

813
00:48:45.079 --> 00:48:46.639
this brings me back to a story of a friend

814
00:48:46.679 --> 00:48:51.800
I have who had to come to this country due

815
00:48:51.840 --> 00:48:55.159
to I'll just I'll just say he had to come over.

816
00:48:55.320 --> 00:48:59.400
Grandfather was already here, grandfather was legally here for many years.

817
00:48:59.679 --> 00:49:02.119
Brought his grandson over to protect him. And he's been

818
00:49:02.159 --> 00:49:04.079
here for a long time. He actually worked for me

819
00:49:04.119 --> 00:49:06.800
for a while. He went to university. He's a computer

820
00:49:06.880 --> 00:49:10.119
science major. He works for a utility company. Guy's brilliant,

821
00:49:10.440 --> 00:49:13.039
you know, and he's going through a situation. He did

822
00:49:13.079 --> 00:49:15.360
it the way. He and his family did it the

823
00:49:15.400 --> 00:49:18.360
right way. They stuck to it the whole deal, even

824
00:49:18.440 --> 00:49:20.119
if in the beginning he had to just get him

825
00:49:20.119 --> 00:49:22.440
out to save him, right, his grandfather had to save him.

826
00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:27.800
But after all that time, legally. He's here illegally period,

827
00:49:28.320 --> 00:49:29.679
and he's trying to get his wife over here at

828
00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:33.599
right now. But he's battling this like no matter what

829
00:49:33.679 --> 00:49:36.480
he does. He's hired multiple lawyers, he's gone through every

830
00:49:36.519 --> 00:49:39.360
scenario you could think of, and it just keeps getting

831
00:49:39.400 --> 00:49:43.320
delayed and pushed back. And it's been years and so

832
00:49:43.360 --> 00:49:48.599
those people, I think some people or most people these days,

833
00:49:49.159 --> 00:49:52.239
look at every single illegal immigrant. Ask someone who's trying

834
00:49:52.239 --> 00:49:56.800
to do something bad or they're a bad person. Technically, yeah,

835
00:49:57.000 --> 00:49:59.480
you're breaking the law, But at the same time, not

836
00:49:59.639 --> 00:50:04.800
every or person is here for nefarious reasons. How are

837
00:50:04.840 --> 00:50:08.440
you handling that? Or in your experience, how have you

838
00:50:08.960 --> 00:50:12.400
seen the perception of people when it comes to that

839
00:50:12.519 --> 00:50:15.320
distinction of illegal versus those who are legally here or

840
00:50:15.320 --> 00:50:17.239
do people just not even see the difference.

841
00:50:17.400 --> 00:50:22.679
Well, this administration, the new one, is not just making

842
00:50:23.519 --> 00:50:29.639
orders about undocumented immigrants. A lot of the executive orders

843
00:50:29.719 --> 00:50:35.119
are affecting legal immigrants too. But coming to a very

844
00:50:35.159 --> 00:50:40.320
basic answer to this very complicated situation is that we

845
00:50:40.360 --> 00:50:45.920
need immigration reform. Oh we have not had immigration laws,

846
00:50:46.679 --> 00:50:50.840
comprehensive immigration laws to keep up with the modern society

847
00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:54.079
that we live. In since the nineteen nineties. And now

848
00:50:54.119 --> 00:50:57.159
think about how many times over the world has changed

849
00:50:57.159 --> 00:51:00.599
and evolved, and how many you know, evolution we've had.

850
00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:05.239
We've you know, industrial revolution, we've had you know the

851
00:51:05.719 --> 00:51:11.199
Y two K now the AI globalization. The world is

852
00:51:11.199 --> 00:51:15.000
so much smaller. The laws have not kept up with that.

853
00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:20.000
In addition to that, America is part of many international treaties,

854
00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:26.119
including the Human Rights Convention. And you know, nobody is illegal.

855
00:51:26.239 --> 00:51:31.320
They could be undocumented, but human rights are an incredibly

856
00:51:31.360 --> 00:51:36.480
important part of American values, and so our laws are

857
00:51:36.519 --> 00:51:39.800
not necessarily keeping up with what we need for this

858
00:51:40.079 --> 00:51:43.119
country and what we need for the future. There are

859
00:51:43.280 --> 00:51:47.039
jobs that need to be done in this country, and

860
00:51:47.079 --> 00:51:50.119
there are people who want jobs from different countries. There

861
00:51:50.159 --> 00:51:52.800
are people who want to just stay alive. You know,

862
00:51:52.960 --> 00:51:56.559
today you talk about cartels and that's a lot. That's

863
00:51:56.599 --> 00:51:59.880
one of the issues for some of the Latin American countries,

864
00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:03.920
but other countries are going through wars. There are climate

865
00:52:04.119 --> 00:52:09.639
change issues that are displacing people. You know, the entire

866
00:52:09.719 --> 00:52:14.320
world needs to come together and find solutions. But in America,

867
00:52:14.400 --> 00:52:18.360
we need comprehensive immigration reform to make sure that our

868
00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:20.440
laws are keeping up with the times.

869
00:52:20.639 --> 00:52:23.639
Okay, so in your mind, what would that look like?

870
00:52:23.719 --> 00:52:27.159
Because if we look at it from as you said,

871
00:52:27.199 --> 00:52:31.880
a humanitarian standpoint, and we do need a reform, we

872
00:52:31.960 --> 00:52:33.960
absolutely do. It's crazy how long it takes to get

873
00:52:33.960 --> 00:52:36.559
things done in the system, and there's no reason anybody

874
00:52:36.559 --> 00:52:39.440
has to wait ten years, fifty years, seventy years. I mean,

875
00:52:39.440 --> 00:52:41.960
that's just stupid. It makes no sense to me. But

876
00:52:43.280 --> 00:52:48.280
with your statement of there's no illegal, there's just undocumented, right,

877
00:52:48.639 --> 00:52:52.039
it's all about humanity. So by that statement, does that

878
00:52:52.079 --> 00:52:57.079
mean the entire world every country should accept everyone equally?

879
00:52:57.119 --> 00:53:00.239
Should it just be an open system for anyone want

880
00:53:00.239 --> 00:53:03.920
to just travel in and out of each country without restriction?

881
00:53:05.239 --> 00:53:07.880
No, I don't. I think there should be agreements between

882
00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:12.199
countries to make sure that there are global solutions. When's

883
00:53:12.880 --> 00:53:16.320
you know, climate change that is you know, wiping away

884
00:53:16.840 --> 00:53:20.360
you know, land for people to live in. You know,

885
00:53:20.440 --> 00:53:25.480
my my heritage is from Bangladesh. It's a small country

886
00:53:25.519 --> 00:53:28.599
next to India. It's probably going to be under the

887
00:53:28.599 --> 00:53:32.320
ocean in the next fifty two hundred years. Maldives might

888
00:53:32.360 --> 00:53:35.159
be one of those. I'm just saying there has to

889
00:53:35.199 --> 00:53:39.400
be both solutions. World leaders go to you know, Davos

890
00:53:39.800 --> 00:53:43.800
or wherever. There has to be world solutions. But for

891
00:53:43.960 --> 00:53:47.360
our immedia issue, we are in America, we are at

892
00:53:47.400 --> 00:53:53.800
the we have borders, we are bordering Canada and Mexico.

893
00:53:55.119 --> 00:53:59.039
You know, there has to be solutions that come from Legypt,

894
00:53:59.079 --> 00:54:02.039
that take into the taken into account the values that

895
00:54:02.079 --> 00:54:07.159
we live by and finding common solutions. And do I

896
00:54:07.280 --> 00:54:10.400
have an answer? No, you know, I'm just one person

897
00:54:10.400 --> 00:54:12.920
who advocates for what is what I feel is right

898
00:54:13.239 --> 00:54:15.840
for the highest good. But the people that hold the

899
00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:19.800
power can't seem to agree on anything. It's become a

900
00:54:19.920 --> 00:54:24.360
very divisive issue. But if we could go back to

901
00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:29.400
love as a source of energy in our world, that

902
00:54:29.599 --> 00:54:33.679
every human being deserves love, and every human being deserve

903
00:54:34.519 --> 00:54:39.280
a way to just live, why can't we come up

904
00:54:39.320 --> 00:54:46.159
with solutions that that can actually everybody and everybody does

905
00:54:46.199 --> 00:54:48.960
their own share. I'm not saying America should take everybody

906
00:54:48.960 --> 00:54:52.400
in anybody. I'm saying that we need to have comprehensive

907
00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:57.440
immigration reform actually can find some solutions, and right now

908
00:54:57.480 --> 00:55:02.079
we have nothing. Oh sorry, it's three o'clock. I have

909
00:55:02.159 --> 00:55:04.599
to go this. This type of conversation can go on

910
00:55:04.840 --> 00:55:08.760
all day long. And so I'm so sorry I have

911
00:55:08.760 --> 00:55:10.480
to leave at three because I have a call coming up,

912
00:55:10.519 --> 00:55:12.119
but I just wanted to make sure that you knew

913
00:55:12.159 --> 00:55:14.320
that before we dive into something else.

914
00:55:14.559 --> 00:55:19.679
Right, Well, if we have to cut it off for now,

915
00:55:19.719 --> 00:55:21.559
we'll just have to pick up on another show if

916
00:55:21.880 --> 00:55:22.360
we're available.

917
00:55:22.920 --> 00:55:27.159
So sure, totally, totally, But you know, I so appreciate it, George,

918
00:55:27.199 --> 00:55:31.039
because these are the conversations that need to happen.

919
00:55:31.480 --> 00:55:33.519
And yeah, I mean there's there's still so much for

920
00:55:33.599 --> 00:55:36.320
us to talk about in regard to just immigration law

921
00:55:36.360 --> 00:55:39.840
and everything. But regardless, why don't you just quickly let

922
00:55:39.840 --> 00:55:41.920
everybody know where they can find you and whatnot. And

923
00:55:42.599 --> 00:55:44.480
I'm sure you and I will be talking again, I hope,

924
00:55:44.679 --> 00:55:45.519
and we can do this again.

925
00:55:45.559 --> 00:55:48.320
I would love that. I would love that. Well, George,

926
00:55:48.320 --> 00:55:52.000
thank you so much for having me. If they want

927
00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:54.840
to connect with LinkedIn, you can find me there to

928
00:55:54.960 --> 00:55:59.159
Mina Watson, and my website at my law firm is

929
00:55:59.400 --> 00:56:02.800
what immigration Law dot com. And I am an author.

930
00:56:02.840 --> 00:56:06.079
Thank you for mentioning mentioning that My author page is

931
00:56:06.119 --> 00:56:08.840
Tamina Watson dot com. And I have a couple of

932
00:56:08.840 --> 00:56:11.199
podcasts that are all you can't you can't miss me,

933
00:56:11.480 --> 00:56:12.880
you know, just google me or find me.

934
00:56:13.519 --> 00:56:15.840
Okay, all right, well, thanks for your time and again,

935
00:56:15.920 --> 00:56:18.119
let's let's please do this again. I think we have

936
00:56:18.199 --> 00:56:20.599
to pick up and do this again and just have yes,

937
00:56:20.679 --> 00:56:21.679
just for this conversation.

938
00:56:22.639 --> 00:56:25.280
It's good. Okay, that sounds good. Thank you again, George

939
00:56:25.280 --> 00:56:26.320
for finding me. Take care.

940
00:56:26.480 --> 00:56:29.559
Yeah, thanks, okay, thanks, thank you for listening. And I

941
00:56:29.599 --> 00:56:34.400
hope you found that conversation informative. Please like, subscribe and

942
00:56:34.480 --> 00:56:36.519
share the show with others, and don't forget to turn

943
00:56:36.559 --> 00:56:40.440
on notifications for world Ablaze. Also visit us at our

944
00:56:40.440 --> 00:56:44.360
website world Ablaze podcast dot com and you could buy

945
00:56:44.480 --> 00:56:46.880
me a coffee as well. That link is also on

946
00:56:46.960 --> 00:56:51.639
our website. Have a great day.