61 - Tahmina Watson - Immigration Lawyer and Published Author

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You are listening to a Fonds Media Network production.

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Welcome to episode sixty one of World Ablaze. On this episode,

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I have Tamina Watson. Tamina Watson is the founder of

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Watson Immigration Law, where she has an expertise in investor

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business and family based immigration. She is a published author

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of multiple books and a strong advocate for immigration reform.

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We spend some time discussing the various work Jesus how

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they relate to a person's immigration status, as well as

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touched on some other immigration issues that relate to the

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United States and how that may affect immigrants around the world.

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I hope you find this conversation informative and I hope

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that it opens the door for having further conversations with you,

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your friends, and your family about this sensitive issue. Well, firstly,

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I thank you for being here or taking the time

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to be here. I know that you're busy. I was

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reading up a little bit on you and you're an

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published author, have another book coming out, Which is what's

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an achievement for I mean, just doing one is an achievement.

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But I mean which which number book is this? It's

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like number.

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Let's see six, sixty six or seven. Yeah, I mean Yeah,

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you know, I love saying I've lost count I went

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to ninety two, like Deepak Chopra or something. How did

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get to ninety something? What are they doing that? I

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don't know how to do? So yeah, I'm working on it.

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But it's interesting. Every book has journey and life of

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its own, and this is at the early stages of

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its life.

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Yeah, that's that's crazy. That's something I've never done, never achieved,

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And so hats off to you for that. And you

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specialize in immigration law, correct or did you practice any

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other types of law before then?

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I practice immigration US immigration law now for my entire

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career in the United States, But when I lived in London,

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I was born and raised in London, and I was

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a lawyer there. In my early days, I did criminal

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defense law, some amounts of civil law practice.

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Okay, So one of the reason I want to well,

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one of the bigger reasons I reached out to you

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is because one you're an authority on this. Two you

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are published, and you do have a law firm that

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specializes in this, namely immigration and immigration law. And with

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everything going on, I wanted a perspective from someone who's

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actually in it, who can actually interpret law and can

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explain what's really going on and what rights there are

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for those that are considered illegal or undocumented that are

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coming into our country. And from what I understand, there's

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always like there's a difference versus when they're on one

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side of the border and when they cross over. And

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of course there's the other situation where airports are kind

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of like Switzerland or neutral if they don't really have

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any borders, like they're not a country right until they

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actually cross over into the destination they're going to. So

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there's a lot of that, And I also want to

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get your opinion on how things are being handled by

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the administration. And we don't have to get too political

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per se, but I do want to get some better

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explanation of the laws, the rights and is the administration

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going about this the correct way. Because I have my opinions,

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I know other people have their opinions. Again, you know,

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I talk to like people in the intelligence community. I

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have other journalists I speak with, and not a lawyer

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though that specializes in this particular subject matter. So with

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that being said, I thought, hey, to me, and maybe

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you can help us with this, Maybe you can explain

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a little bit you know would.

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I would be honored. My question for you is who

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is your primary audience?

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Well, our audience is pretty much I don't know everyone

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whoever is willing to listen. To be quite honest, if

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we have worldwide audience, multiple countries, hundreds of thousands of downloads,

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so I'm not really sure exactly who everyone is.

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But a great problem top Yeah, well.

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I don't know about that. I just I just try

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to keep things going and make sure everybody is satisfied

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whoever does like my particular brand anyway, and I think

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everybody who is listening to this episode now, which is great,

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but you know, regardless, again, I'll be honest, this show

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can get political, but there's times where it's not. It's just, hey,

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let's talk about the facts. Let's talk about what's going on.

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Let's talk about what's happening from a factual standpoint, from

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the standpoint backed by data. And that's one thing that

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I'm hoping that you can do for us, you know.

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And one of the things that were that was in

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well contested for a while or people didn't understand and

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even I'm still foggy on was was the right to

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work as in you know, the h H one H

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two A visas or H two B visas. Can you

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explain how that works and how that relates to someone

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who has one of those visas and works in the

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United States.

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Sure, so, thank you so much again, George for having

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me and asking some of these brilliant questions, because when

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people hear sound bites in the news, it gets even

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more confusing because one side it says one thing and

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another says another, and then you know, the listener or

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the layperson doesn't know really where anything stands. So just

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back basics for a moment. The United States immigration system

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was created in nineteen ninety and the current system that

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we work with, and it created a family based system,

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element based system. In the employment based system, we have

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temporary work visas and we have green card options. But

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the temporary work visas or the temporary visa programs are

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in the employment based system. There's no temporary visa in

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the family based system. The family system is primarily get

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a green card you with misfah with you, and so

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in the employment based pre visa categories there are various

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different types of visa categories which are labeled as ault

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and then a number and so H one B, H

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two B, H two A one A one B. And

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so there are these letters and numbers and then letters

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again that signa for specific categories of visas. And when

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it comes to these visas, they're really defined by the

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type of work somebody is going to be doing. So

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if you're a priest coming here to be a priest

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to add a church, you would get a religious visa

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R one. If you are quote unquote a genius, one

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of the top people in your profession, be getting an

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old visa, And that was a matter of controversy see

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during the first time President Trump was in office because

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the first Lady had that visa. So the H one

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B visa is a work visa as well. And the

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basic premise of the H one B visa is that

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you must have a bachelor's degree in a specific subject

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matter that gives you the academic training and theoretical training

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to do a particular job that requires that training. So

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even though I'm a lawyer, i would not be eligible

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for a job in the computer industry because my degree

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is not in computer science. Okay, so the specific degree

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has to match a specific job. Any work visa has

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three primary requirements to show number one that there is

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an employer. Number two, there's a job, and number tho,

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there's an employee that you're going to sponsor. The employer

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is going to sponsor. Now, the employer has to make

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specific promises number one that they are going to pay

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the prevailing wage for that type of job in that

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type of breer. So an entry level doctor in Kansas

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City may get let's call it, fifty thousand dollars a year,

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but the entry level doctor in New York might be

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getting seventy thousand dollars a year. So the prevailing wage

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is determined by the Department of Labor and they decide

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what the salary will be, and the employer has to

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essentially promise that they will pay that salary. So that's

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the number one promise and number two promise is that

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they are they have the finances to pay that salary

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for a job that actually truly exists. Okay. And so

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when we hear debates in the news, often the debate

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is about bringing in cheap labor, particularly on the H

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one B front. You might remember around Christmas twenty twenty

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four was major you by controversial disctions where Elon Musk

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supports the H one B, and Steve Bannon does not

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support the H one B, and then President Trump that yes,

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he supports the H one B, And so there's controversy

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among leadership about the benefits of an H one B.

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But what are the facts. The facts are that employers

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in the United States, such as Microsoft, Amazon, Boeing, you

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name the big corporation, they use H one B visas

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because they generally cannot find enough talent to take those jobs.

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Why is that is because our education system is not

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producing sufficient talented minds or people for our workforce. Now,

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the question that comes up from that is, well, they're

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cheap labor, You're paying them less, And the answer is no,

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if anything, it costs more to hire somebody on an

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H one B. And the reason is not only are

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they they the employer making the promise as per the

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Department of Labour's guidance, but they also have to be

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competitive because the people that they are trying to recruit

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are being courted by multiple companies, and so they have

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to make sure that the employer's offer is attractive enough

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for somebody to say, yes, I would like to join you.

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So they are often being competitive in the market. But secondly,

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the employer has to then pay for legal fees, HI fees,

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compliance fee go forth. And so for anybody listening, each

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one B is an important visa in our immigration system

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because often people behind the scenes that are managing important

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parts of our lives. And you just need to look

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at your telephone, your cell phone, the hardware, the network,

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the software often are being managed by high skilled immigrants

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who might be working at some of these telephone companies

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or the wireless companies, or the you know, the technology companies.

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All the apps that you have on your phone by

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a lot of high skilled immigrants.

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Okay, so that was that was great on clarifying the

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H one B I have. I also have further questions

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as the differences between classification H one versus H two.

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But I want to back up a bit, because you're right,

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a lot of people were thinking this is just cheap labor,

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and I want, I want to want to say something

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about that, and I'm kind of I'm not saying I'm

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correcting this, but I'm kind of thinking where this argument

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possibly may have come from. And I know this from

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the construction industry and various other businesses that I've owned

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also throughout the years, and I will say that sometimes

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there's a difference between prevailing wage and the market value

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of a job in a certain area. So let's say

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construction work, for example, if you're a framer, prevailing wage

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I've just thrown this out there could be twenty five

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dollars an hour, but due to the market demand and

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what usually pays an experienced framer in that particular area,

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they're actually getting paid let's say upwards of forty five

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dollars an hour, especially if they're in the union. So

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I'm wondering if that may have contributed to the misunderstanding

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of you know, as you said, cheap labor was it

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was it Could it have been a difference between what

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was considered a market value for a job and what

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was considered a standard prevailing wage.

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That's a really, really astute question, and that could be

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a perception that a lot of people have. But I

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come back to competitiveness of the limited amount of talent

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that there is in this country. And so when I now,

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I live in Washington State, so it's very easy for

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me toly talk about Microsoft and Amazon. But when there

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is somebody both these companies might want to hire, and

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the startup smaller companies want to hire the same person,

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they have to be competitive with competitive market rates, otherwise

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they will not have that talented person join them. So

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while there is perception, that actually is probably widespread, George,

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So great question. Thank you for asking that the pool

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of people that these companies can draw from are still

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limited and so you have to pay market value. And

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in addition to that, there are you know, no no

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secret if you go look at any job ad for

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Monster dot com or Indeed dot com or wherever salaries

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are posted, and these salaries when somebody promises a salary

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that is through a form on the Department of Labor's website,

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and the Department of Labour's website will have a lot

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of data that can be accessed by the public. And

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so it it is again coming back to you, George.

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It's a good question, But the reality is these companies

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pay the market value.

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Right, And I was just asking the question because I'm

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wondering if that's where that perception came from, and they

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probably because I've seen it myself, you know. And I'm

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not saying that applies to the situation for example, when

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we're talking about engineers, but just wondering if the public

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may have I don't know if someone out there probably

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came across out data and they thought, well, yeah, they're

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getting cheap labor, and of course it has to be competitive,

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especially and you know, again I have been an employer,

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and I do know that. Listen, if you stay a

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salary in publicly and is plubbly available, everybody has to

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be you know, offered the same wage, at least the

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same starting wage, and then you know, move up from there.

244
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So I understand that I was just wondering if you

245
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thought that might that that issue that I brought up

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may have been part of that misperception. Is I guess

247
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how I should have worded it as to whether or

248
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not they're really paying for cheap labor. I don't believe

249
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that's the case. Is but I do want to ask

250
00:15:32.840 --> 00:15:34.480
you this, is there a myth? Is it okay? Is

251
00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:37.279
this a myth with with an H one visa, for example?

252
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Is is there a contract between the employer employee as

253
00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:45.000
for a certain amount of time? Is that true?

254
00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:49.080
Sure? Yes, that's that's actually part of the application process

255
00:15:49.919 --> 00:15:53.000
where you have an off letter or a contract that

256
00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:58.919
spells out the terms of the employment. H one vs

257
00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:03.000
can be part time, and the contract would specify that,

258
00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:07.519
but the actual application form would also specify if it's

259
00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:10.120
part time of full time. The boxes on the forms

260
00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:15.200
ask specifically full time, part time wages, hourly, annual, monthly,

261
00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:20.679
whatever the way it is. And so that's a contract

262
00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:24.679
and the employer actually has to contract with whatever else

263
00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:27.480
they're doing they have. There's a lot of compliance involved

264
00:16:27.879 --> 00:16:30.399
where if they are applying for a NACHU one B,

265
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the employer has to post a copy of the quote

266
00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:39.320
unquote wage promise that we just talked about in an

267
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inconspicuous place in their office for ten days so everybody

268
00:16:43.480 --> 00:16:47.279
can see it. So if anybody is, you know, feeling

269
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like there's an issue, they can most definitely complain. But

270
00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:54.799
it's there is a process for this and it has

271
00:16:54.840 --> 00:16:57.960
to be open and that posting is a very important

272
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part of it to make sure there's visibilit and compliance

273
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and then all of those forms get signed by them.

274
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But I guess my question was more about the time.

275
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I guess I should have been more clear about the

276
00:17:13.319 --> 00:17:16.839
question in my questioning was, Okay, does the employer enter

277
00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:21.200
contract with the person who is to be contracted under

278
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this H one visa? As in their sponsor them. So

279
00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:27.680
does that mean that they're committed to this company like

280
00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:30.000
that person's also committed this company and working for them

281
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:32.359
for let's say two years, three years, four years, five years.

282
00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:34.599
Is that true of an H one as well?

283
00:17:35.559 --> 00:17:39.160
Very good question. So, uh, the employment contract will look

284
00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:41.160
exactly the same as it would for you and me

285
00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:44.519
if we were hired. Gotcha, So the employment contract wouldn't

286
00:17:44.519 --> 00:17:49.039
look necessarily different. It might have an additional couple of

287
00:17:50.519 --> 00:17:53.240
paragraphs saying subject to approval of your H one B,

288
00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:59.720
but H one b's initially will be or any any

289
00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:02.960
H one can be issued for up to three years, okay,

290
00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:06.119
but total time that we can have on an H

291
00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:09.400
one B is six years. So they can they have

292
00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:12.079
to first get into a lottery, and the lottery period

293
00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:15.720
is opening up March seventh to twenty fourth this year,

294
00:18:16.279 --> 00:18:19.039
and if somebody is selected in the lottery, then they

295
00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:21.720
don't have to be in the lottery again once you

296
00:18:21.720 --> 00:18:25.759
know Employer A has has gone through the lottery. HAN

297
00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:28.279
sponsored them and they worked for Company A, even if

298
00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:31.200
it's for one day. You know, we're looking at a

299
00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:33.720
lot of layoffs these days, which are you know, bringing

300
00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:37.119
up different types of nuanced problems. But as long as

301
00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:40.559
they worked for company A, they can move to company

302
00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:44.640
BCDEFG as many times as they want without being in

303
00:18:44.680 --> 00:18:48.279
the lottery. But only up to six years in total.

304
00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:51.440
And there are people in the US who have been

305
00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:54.960
on H one b's for much longer than six years,

306
00:18:55.319 --> 00:18:59.279
but only if some technical steps have been taken towards

307
00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:01.680
the cards.

308
00:19:02.359 --> 00:19:06.000
So okay, let's go over that then. So when they're

309
00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:08.880
six years is up, for example, what's the process for

310
00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:11.720
them to be able to remain in the United States

311
00:19:12.039 --> 00:19:14.039
for a longer period and continue to work.

312
00:19:14.599 --> 00:19:18.440
Yeah. Really, this is something that employers struggle with because

313
00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:22.880
planning has to happen way in advance of the six years. Okay,

314
00:19:23.079 --> 00:19:26.759
in the don't have to necessarily test the market. You're

315
00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:32.039
making the wage promise and you're having certain compliance issues,

316
00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:35.960
but you're not testing the market because it's a temporary position.

317
00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:39.119
But if you are going to sponsor that person for

318
00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:43.960
a permanent position, you have to test the market to

319
00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:49.000
ensure that no American worker has been left out before

320
00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:52.880
you offer that job for a foreign worker. Now, to

321
00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:57.119
test the market, there are many steps that have to

322
00:19:57.160 --> 00:20:00.880
be taken. First, you have to ensure or the Department

323
00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:04.079
of Labor believes that this is the right wage job.

324
00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:08.400
So you have apply and Department of Labor might take

325
00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:13.240
eight nine to twelve months give permission on that wage.

326
00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:18.559
Then in your local area with the main newspaper of

327
00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:22.799
that area, including three other ways of advertising. So the

328
00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:26.880
government wants to see that you've made a bona fide effort,

329
00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:32.200
a real effort to advertise the position, and that has

330
00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:35.839
to be advertised for at least thirty days, and then

331
00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:40.079
you have to wait thirty days to applications. Now, if

332
00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:46.119
somebody applies for the job who has the minimum experience required,

333
00:20:46.599 --> 00:20:51.680
the employer cannot move forward with the application unless he

334
00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:55.119
hires this person or they hire this person and continue

335
00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:59.039
with the other position. So if you've tested the market

336
00:20:59.079 --> 00:21:02.880
and somebody exists, you can't go forward with that application.

337
00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:05.920
And so there you can't go forward with the H

338
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:07.839
one B application.

339
00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:11.240
Not the H one B. It's called a permanent labor certification,

340
00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:12.440
a permanent.

341
00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:13.799
Application, ah, got it.

342
00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:17.880
And so there are many steps that the employer has

343
00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:21.400
to take to test the market before they can make

344
00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:22.759
that permanent application.

345
00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:25.680
Okay, so they can't they can't convert this into a

346
00:21:25.720 --> 00:21:30.480
permanent status of work unless they can prove that, yeah,

347
00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:32.799
we literally couldn't find any other candidate in the marketplace

348
00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:33.440
to fill the position.

349
00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:39.240
That's correct. That's correct, And when that application gets to

350
00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:46.279
it has many steps, many different timelines, and many different

351
00:21:46.599 --> 00:21:49.200
points of potential failure.

352
00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:53.440
Okay, so, so how soon should should an employee a

353
00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:55.480
non employe, I'm sorry, an employer, I mean, how soon

354
00:21:55.480 --> 00:21:59.000
should an employer be taking these necessary steps to make

355
00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:01.880
sure that they're doing the right thing before they get

356
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:05.519
to the point of that person or that said employee

357
00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:07.759
they're H one expiring.

358
00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:15.200
Really great question, George B. A lot of employers will

359
00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:19.960
wait until the first three years have gone by, and

360
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:23.920
then they'll start thinking about it. Because if the green

361
00:22:23.960 --> 00:22:29.000
card application, the permanent labor certification application has not been

362
00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:32.319
pending for one year or more, they cannot extend the

363
00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:35.759
H one B beyond the six years. So there's a

364
00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:38.839
lot of counting back and counting forwards to see when

365
00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:43.839
you do these steps. And because it's very complicated and

366
00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:49.279
not cheap, the process is expensive, employers don't necessarily want

367
00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:52.400
to do this until they have to. But there are

368
00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:55.599
a lot of employees chainly start the process as soon

369
00:22:55.640 --> 00:22:59.799
as the H one B application has been approved because

370
00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:04.640
they know all of these steps will take time, and

371
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:09.599
often these timelines can't be controlled. So for example, when

372
00:23:10.759 --> 00:23:17.519
during the first Trump presidency, everything was backlogged significantly and

373
00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:20.680
it took four years for the Biden administration to reduce

374
00:23:20.759 --> 00:23:27.279
timelines in various different application processes. And so employers have

375
00:23:27.319 --> 00:23:34.160
to be mindful that these timelines can can change and

376
00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:36.920
go back and forth. And this is not just the timeline,

377
00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:41.039
this is just the processing to get the green card.

378
00:23:42.519 --> 00:23:45.720
That's a different type of calculation and an assessment altogether.

379
00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:52.160
If you're from India, China, Philippines, Mexico, the waiting time

380
00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:56.880
for people born in these countries is signif longer for

381
00:23:57.000 --> 00:24:01.359
people who than people who are born in a or

382
00:24:02.319 --> 00:24:03.119
somewhere in Europe.

383
00:24:04.119 --> 00:24:07.160
Can you repeat that? It kind of dropped, So people

384
00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:13.400
born in India, Mexico, you know, basically China or China, Okay,

385
00:24:13.480 --> 00:24:15.279
so longer period for them than it would be for

386
00:24:15.319 --> 00:24:18.400
someone born in Canada and where else anywhere else in

387
00:24:18.440 --> 00:24:19.839
the world, Oh, just anywhere.

388
00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:24.480
Yes. What happens is the United States Green Card system

389
00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:30.039
has a limit every year, and the annual limit is

390
00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:33.240
one hundred and forty thousand Green cards each year for

391
00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:36.480
employment based applications?

392
00:24:36.599 --> 00:24:39.599
Is that total for the United States or per employer?

393
00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:44.440
It's a total for anybody trying to get an employment

394
00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:48.079
based green card. So an employer might sponsor you, you

395
00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:52.000
might sponsor yourself. There are one you categories in which

396
00:24:52.039 --> 00:24:55.000
you can do that, but they all fall under one

397
00:24:55.079 --> 00:24:58.559
hundred and forty thousand, which is never enough for Green

398
00:24:58.599 --> 00:25:02.839
card applications. And so these one hundred and forty green

399
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:09.119
cards are then divided into seven percent quotas for each

400
00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:10.440
country in the world.

401
00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:13.200
Ah okay, And so if.

402
00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:17.400
You have a country with a large population, there's a

403
00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:20.279
longer waiting time because they're all fitting into the seven

404
00:25:20.279 --> 00:25:21.079
percent quota.

405
00:25:22.279 --> 00:25:28.160
So then okay, So the permanent right to work, Let's

406
00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:30.319
say someone gets that status, what does that do for

407
00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:34.680
their immigration status or here in the United States, because

408
00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:36.279
it sounds like you still have to go through the

409
00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:38.640
process of even getting a green card? What does that

410
00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:41.200
do for that person? And still are they then could

411
00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:45.240
they be considered a permanent resident? Because I'm foggy on that.

412
00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:47.000
So can are you able to explain that?

413
00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:52.119
You're asking some really fantastic questions, George? Until somebody gets

414
00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:56.200
their green card in their hands. They are not a

415
00:25:56.240 --> 00:26:00.799
permanent resident here, got it? And you have to maintain

416
00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:06.119
your visa status throughout that time and that green card

417
00:26:06.119 --> 00:26:10.359
application with the technicalities I mentioned about certain times and

418
00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:15.960
certain applications unless you get to and approved what's called

419
00:26:16.039 --> 00:26:21.240
I one forty, where the employer has fulfilled their market

420
00:26:21.319 --> 00:26:25.839
testing exercise and proven to the Department of Homeland Security

421
00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:30.480
saying I couldn't find somebody. I'm sponsoring Joe blog. Until

422
00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:33.559
somebody gets to that point, they cannot extend their H

423
00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:36.880
one bs for three years at a time, and a

424
00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:39.640
lot of people in this country are in that situation. Yeah,

425
00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:42.400
and so you have to have that employer continuously sponsor

426
00:26:42.440 --> 00:26:47.119
you for the H one B. Now, one of the scenarios, George,

427
00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:50.119
you might have seen over the last few years is

428
00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:54.759
the technology industry has seen a lot of layoffs. And

429
00:26:55.839 --> 00:27:00.200
California's seen the layoffs, Washington stat has seen them over

430
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:01.319
the country. People have been laving.

431
00:27:01.400 --> 00:27:04.000
Yeah, Google and Apple just got rid of a lot

432
00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:05.160
of people a couple of years ago.

433
00:27:05.839 --> 00:27:08.640
That's right. And it actually happened in twenty twenty five

434
00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:09.559
already too.

435
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:10.960
It did. I didn't realize that.

436
00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:14.599
Yeah, it's happening, it's not necessarily hitting the news in

437
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:16.920
the same way because there are so many other things

438
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:19.440
that I keeping you distracted.

439
00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:22.119
It's a chaotic twenty twenty five right now, Oh.

440
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:26.480
My gosh, so much chaos. But if you have lost

441
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:32.480
that job, your H one B has gone, but also

442
00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:37.640
that green cut application that your employer filed has also gone.

443
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:43.119
Right, So what happens to that person who because this

444
00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:48.640
person who's working is doing so legally right, they're legally

445
00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:51.400
here because their employer has sponsored them to be here,

446
00:27:51.960 --> 00:27:55.160
and they it's been determined that, look, we can't find

447
00:27:55.160 --> 00:27:56.880
anyone in the market with your skills, so we need

448
00:27:56.920 --> 00:27:59.759
you here. Well, what happens to that person when they

449
00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:02.839
get stuck in this in between status where you know,

450
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:04.960
like you said, there's only so many green cards available, right,

451
00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:08.359
one hundred and forty seven percent divided by seven percent

452
00:28:08.359 --> 00:28:11.119
among other countries, et cetera. But then what happens to

453
00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:13.000
that individual where they get stuck in that middle where

454
00:28:13.039 --> 00:28:15.640
it's like, oh, well, you know, we're kind of stuck.

455
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:17.839
We can't get you the green card, or or they

456
00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:20.279
couldn't make it happen to where they could extend to

457
00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:23.079
a permanent work status. What happens to that individual.

458
00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:30.279
Really complicated, And interestingly enough, I appear in a New

459
00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:34.079
York Times story, so if anybody is interested, they can

460
00:28:34.200 --> 00:28:36.160
google my name in New York Times and there's a

461
00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:40.720
story about some people who were laid off and what

462
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:42.960
they had to do. So there are some more details

463
00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:47.920
in that particular article. But in essence, remember we talked

464
00:28:47.960 --> 00:28:50.680
about the temporary visa and the permanent visa. Yes, the

465
00:28:50.720 --> 00:28:53.680
temporary visa is what allows you to remain in the

466
00:28:53.839 --> 00:28:57.880
United States, so one must always have if you're on

467
00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:00.799
a work visa or employment based in a greation system,

468
00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:06.240
you want to maintain status with a temporary visa, the

469
00:29:06.279 --> 00:29:09.960
green card application that the employer might have filed and

470
00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:14.680
you met that certain stage, you can keep your position

471
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:19.720
in that quote unquote line. But a new employer has

472
00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:22.240
to go through the entire exercise all over again.

473
00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:25.279
A new employer so different, so that person would have

474
00:29:25.279 --> 00:29:27.200
to work for somebody else at that point.

475
00:29:27.519 --> 00:29:32.079
Yes, or I, or if if the current employer is

476
00:29:32.119 --> 00:29:36.759
giving you a new job because they're shuffling or restructuring

477
00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:41.240
within their own you know, entity and organization, they too

478
00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:44.880
have to file a new application. Because these permanent positions

479
00:29:44.920 --> 00:29:51.519
are for specific positions, there could be some slight changes

480
00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:53.200
to keep that green.

481
00:29:54.400 --> 00:29:55.920
It does sound like someone could get caught in the

482
00:29:55.960 --> 00:29:59.960
middle of the timing though, right, because yes, you know

483
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:01.640
up to six years, as you said earlier on in

484
00:30:01.799 --> 00:30:04.519
h one, and even if even by year three, let's

485
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:07.759
say they're already working on working on trying to get

486
00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:10.920
that employee to be a permanent worker status, but then

487
00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:13.720
there's only one hundred and forty thousand green cards. I'm

488
00:30:13.799 --> 00:30:16.559
just I'm just in my mind seeing where this can

489
00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:19.759
be an issue at times, it is an issue.

490
00:30:19.480 --> 00:30:20.079
All the time.

491
00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:21.000
Totally.

492
00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:26.440
You've hit the nail exactly where it matters, and that

493
00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:32.079
waiting time is incredibly important to understand because that gets

494
00:30:32.839 --> 00:30:35.240
that becomes part of the assessment of when you file

495
00:30:35.319 --> 00:30:39.279
somebody's green card because people from India, for example, they

496
00:30:39.519 --> 00:30:44.920
there are calculations and many reports written. One if anybody's looking,

497
00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:50.720
you can look up Cato c Ato which is a

498
00:30:50.759 --> 00:30:53.000
think tank and they have done a lot of studies

499
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:55.400
and so you will look in one of their reports,

500
00:30:55.519 --> 00:30:58.359
just google it and the reports go through a lot

501
00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:02.039
of different you know, methods of doing these analysis and

502
00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:07.880
they found that anybody in from India in this backlog,

503
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:12.000
often will have to wait seventy plus years to get

504
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:13.960
their green cards.

505
00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:21.559
Yeah that's crazy, Yeah, that's crazy. What's really really quickly though,

506
00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:26.279
let's let's define the difference because I wanted to know

507
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:29.359
the difference also between you were talking about the categories.

508
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:32.559
So what's difference between one and two? Like H one

509
00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:34.000
H two.

510
00:31:34.119 --> 00:31:37.640
Really good question. So H one B is, as I

511
00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:40.920
mentioned earlier, you must have a degree to do the51200:31:41.039 --> 00:31:43.839



job that that degree allows you to do, and the51300:31:43.880 --> 00:31:45.240



employer has that degree.51400:31:45.279 --> 00:31:49.559



So a degree within a particular discipline, right.51500:31:49.720 --> 00:31:53.799



Exactly, that's exactly right. And the H two B and51600:31:53.880 --> 00:31:57.400



the H two A these are seasonal visas where you51700:31:57.519 --> 00:32:01.599



don't need a degree. The H two A is essentially51800:32:01.640 --> 00:32:05.960



for agriculture. And so when you see people coming here51900:32:06.000 --> 00:32:11.119



to pick our apples, you know, potatoes, you know, get52000:32:11.480 --> 00:32:13.240



salmon for example. Picture.52100:32:13.359 --> 00:32:15.640



Yeah, I was very familiar with H two A and52200:32:15.640 --> 00:32:18.240



and and how it was used, but I was always52300:32:18.279 --> 00:32:21.039



unfamiliar with how they classify, you know, one versus two.52400:32:21.119 --> 00:32:22.680



And then there's there's there's one a.52500:32:23.079 --> 00:32:26.440



H one B is the one that we talked about, right.52600:32:26.640 --> 00:32:28.319



There is there an H one A or is it52700:32:28.359 --> 00:32:29.240



just H one there.52800:32:29.160 --> 00:32:33.039



Is you know there is H one C okay, which52900:32:33.079 --> 00:32:37.240



is the nurses. It's not something I have generally used.53000:32:38.160 --> 00:32:41.039



The HB is typically the one that is used the most,53100:32:41.279 --> 00:32:44.599



but the H three as well. So the H two53200:32:44.680 --> 00:32:49.920



A is agriculture. H two B is for seasonal, intermittent53300:32:50.359 --> 00:32:54.240



or one time work. So if you see people at.53400:32:54.240 --> 00:32:57.680



So as you said earlier that the letter denotes the53500:32:57.839 --> 00:32:59.119



type of field.53600:32:59.599 --> 00:33:03.240



That's it exactly right. So the H two B has53700:33:03.279 --> 00:33:07.799



three types seasonal work, intermittent work, or one time work.53800:33:08.279 --> 00:33:11.559



And if you look at the ski resorts, for example,53900:33:12.519 --> 00:33:16.880



they likely use the H two B. It's very commonly54000:33:16.960 --> 00:33:20.000



known that President Trump at is mar A Lago Estate54100:33:20.559 --> 00:33:23.880



uses H to B for you know a lot of54200:33:23.880 --> 00:33:28.000



the workers that come to the resort, and these are54300:33:28.079 --> 00:33:33.039



seasonal workers, and these two have quotas. The H two54400:33:33.039 --> 00:33:37.200



B has quotas and so and the age three visa54500:33:37.519 --> 00:33:40.799



is for people training who don't have training in their54600:33:40.880 --> 00:33:44.039



home country are coming to the United States to learn54700:33:44.400 --> 00:33:47.839



a skill that they wouldn't have otherwise. But proving whether54800:33:47.880 --> 00:33:50.279



it's H two A or B or three or H54900:33:50.359 --> 00:33:53.880



one B, it's all about the paperwork. And all of55000:33:53.920 --> 00:33:58.200



the various complicated procedures. So you said you're familiar with55100:33:58.240 --> 00:34:01.559



the H two A. There are times for it. I55200:34:01.640 --> 00:34:04.799



must have done, you know, things in advance to be55300:34:04.839 --> 00:34:08.000



able to jump into the you know, application process for55400:34:08.119 --> 00:34:10.480



the H to be or H u A. It's it's55500:34:10.599 --> 00:34:14.559



not simple, and there aren't that many lawyers who file55600:34:14.599 --> 00:34:17.320



AH to be an HUOA compared to the H one BS.55700:34:19.360 --> 00:34:22.119



Yeah, that's I mean, so there, there's there's a lot55800:34:22.239 --> 00:34:26.519



going on to what what an H one or H55900:34:26.639 --> 00:34:31.039



two visa does for somebody. And I needed I needed56000:34:31.280 --> 00:34:35.519



you to mean to explain all this because especially when56100:34:35.519 --> 00:34:37.840



you go on social media, people don't understand what they're56200:34:37.960 --> 00:34:41.119



used for. It's it's a legal right for someone to work,56300:34:41.320 --> 00:34:43.559



and there's a reason why that person's being brought in56400:34:43.599 --> 00:34:47.440



for this particular type of work, and everybody, everybody just56500:34:47.480 --> 00:34:51.559



seems to automatically think the worst. You know, it's always56600:34:51.559 --> 00:34:54.320



a negative forever for the United States, for example, when56700:34:54.400 --> 00:34:56.920



it's not the case, but it can be a negative56800:34:56.920 --> 00:34:58.679



for the person gets stuck in the middle or gets56900:34:58.679 --> 00:35:00.800



caught in between those timelines that you were talking about.57000:35:01.360 --> 00:35:04.920



So yeah, totally, and you know, one of the reasons57100:35:04.920 --> 00:35:08.360



that there is a lot of concern is the the57200:35:08.440 --> 00:35:10.599



people who come to the United States on the H57300:35:10.639 --> 00:35:15.159



two A or H two B visa program are similar57400:35:15.159 --> 00:35:19.840



to the people who often undocumented doing this work. And57500:35:19.960 --> 00:35:28.599



so if you look at some of the agricultural workers57600:35:28.679 --> 00:35:32.679



and farm workers, you may find people who are not57700:35:32.880 --> 00:35:36.960



on actual H two visas, and that's where a lot57800:35:37.000 --> 00:35:41.679



of the controversy it's from. But A, we don't have57900:35:41.880 --> 00:35:46.079



enough of those visas, and b there aren't enough American58000:35:46.159 --> 00:35:49.480



workers to go and do back in the sun rain,58100:35:49.880 --> 00:35:54.280



you know, on farms, and so you know, if you58200:35:54.360 --> 00:35:57.519



were to ever think about doing a follow up podcast58300:35:57.599 --> 00:36:01.679



on these issues, maybe interviewed somebody who owns a farm58400:36:01.960 --> 00:36:04.800



and will tell you they see every day.58500:36:05.400 --> 00:36:08.440



Well so, but that opens up an entirely different conversation58600:36:08.480 --> 00:36:11.719



because now we're talking about Now we're talking about not58700:36:11.840 --> 00:36:13.960



necessarily whether people want to do the jobs, is whether58800:36:13.960 --> 00:36:15.920



they want to do them for the wages being offered,58900:36:17.119 --> 00:36:20.480



and so now we're talking about competitiveness in the market.59000:36:21.039 --> 00:36:23.679



And the other reason why people have been upset is59100:36:23.679 --> 00:36:26.239



because you know, look, there's many people who said, sure,59200:36:26.599 --> 00:36:29.719



I'll go pick cherries, for example, if it paid thirty59300:36:29.719 --> 00:36:32.119



five dollars an hour for you know, we know that's59400:36:32.159 --> 00:36:35.239



not the wage for that particular position, but that's been59500:36:35.280 --> 00:36:39.519



the argument. And so once we started outsourcing labor again,59600:36:39.519 --> 00:36:41.760



That's why I said, this is a different conversation. And59700:36:41.800 --> 00:36:44.639



you're bringing in labor from outside while they're getting they59800:36:44.679 --> 00:36:48.039



are getting paid the wages according to the market, and59900:36:48.800 --> 00:36:51.639



what is a standard wage in the guidelines of how60000:36:51.639 --> 00:36:54.119



the government says you should pay someone for a particular position.60100:36:54.480 --> 00:36:57.280



Those positions in of themselves have been watered down and60200:36:57.280 --> 00:37:01.320



degraded to a lower pain. That is, versus if they60300:37:01.320 --> 00:37:04.599



were paying for somebody else, like you said, you know,60400:37:04.639 --> 00:37:06.719



someone someone here. Let's just say a white guy. You know,60500:37:07.039 --> 00:37:08.719



some white guy wants to go Picturey's. You know that60600:37:08.760 --> 00:37:10.519



he's probably not gonna go do it because he doesn't60700:37:10.559 --> 00:37:12.039



he's not gonna do it for that amount of money.60800:37:12.280 --> 00:37:13.480



So I don't know if I don't know if it's60900:37:13.480 --> 00:37:15.360



an argument of whether or not people are afraid to61000:37:15.360 --> 00:37:16.719



do the work or they just don't want to do61100:37:16.760 --> 00:37:19.920



the work because they don't think it's worth what it's paying.61200:37:20.639 --> 00:37:23.679



My job, Okay, so for my business, I'll bring this up.61300:37:23.679 --> 00:37:27.239



For example, we're in the events industry. So there's times61400:37:27.559 --> 00:37:30.119



I work with everybody. I don't care what race country61500:37:30.119 --> 00:37:32.119



you're from. You know, if you're a professional and you61600:37:32.119 --> 00:37:33.760



know your stuff, and I don't have to hold your hand,61700:37:33.840 --> 00:37:36.039



we're good. I just don't want to worry about whether61800:37:36.119 --> 00:37:38.079



or not you're getting the job done. And I have61900:37:38.159 --> 00:37:41.960



people that are extremely good at their jobs. I mean62000:37:42.079 --> 00:37:44.079



no way more than I do, and they should. And62100:37:45.119 --> 00:37:47.039



I'm a white guy and I and I know people62200:37:47.119 --> 00:37:49.840



that are Mexican, I know people that are Indian that62300:37:49.880 --> 00:37:51.599



are all in this particular industry, and we all network62400:37:51.639 --> 00:37:53.239



with each other. We keep each other going, and we62500:37:53.320 --> 00:37:59.599



keep each other paid. But we are working hard. Okay, now, now,62600:37:59.599 --> 00:38:02.400



what I'm I'm trying to get at is all summer.62700:38:02.599 --> 00:38:05.440



I am in one hundred and five plus weather for62800:38:05.599 --> 00:38:09.159



sixteen eighteen hours every day working. I'm doing it because62900:38:09.159 --> 00:38:10.920



I'm getting paid to do it. I'm getting paid well,63000:38:10.960 --> 00:38:12.960



and I pay everybody who works for me well because63100:38:12.960 --> 00:38:16.840



they're specialists within that that industry. But when we're talking63200:38:16.840 --> 00:38:19.159



about people in the fields, they're not treated the same.63300:38:19.599 --> 00:38:22.280



And I think that is the issue that we have,63400:38:23.039 --> 00:38:24.960



and that's why most people say, yeah, I'm not going63500:38:25.039 --> 00:38:27.679



to go pick those cherries or cut that lawn because63600:38:27.719 --> 00:38:29.400



I'm not getting paid enough for me to go out63700:38:29.400 --> 00:38:32.000



there and sweat. And maybe we need to change the63800:38:32.000 --> 00:38:36.880



perception of how people view hard work and labor in63900:38:36.920 --> 00:38:39.400



the United States. Maybe it's just a matter of retraining64000:38:39.440 --> 00:38:45.000



people or holding the industries accountable for making the wages livable.64100:38:45.559 --> 00:38:46.920



What do you think of that?64200:38:46.920 --> 00:38:50.239



That's a really I mean, it's such a complicated mulant64300:38:50.519 --> 00:38:55.920



situation that not just America but probably other countries grapple with.64400:38:55.920 --> 00:38:59.679



It's about the industry, right, I mean, let's say you know,64500:38:59.760 --> 00:39:02.440



you're a farm owner. Let's just take an example of64600:39:02.480 --> 00:39:05.360



a farm owner and he's, you know, he's got a64700:39:05.360 --> 00:39:09.559



seasonal sort of cherry picking and he's got to make64800:39:09.599 --> 00:39:12.480



sure the cherries hit the grocery store where we're you64900:39:12.519 --> 00:39:14.960



and I are gonna go buy, you know, a pound65000:39:15.000 --> 00:39:19.239



of cherries for maybe six ninety nine. How much is65100:39:19.280 --> 00:39:24.119



he actually making? You know that that business there's a65200:39:24.159 --> 00:39:28.960



common misconception, and there are different businesses, different issues. Okay,65300:39:29.360 --> 00:39:35.960



but what does the standard farm business make and what65400:39:36.119 --> 00:39:40.000



is the salary that's necessary to do that? Now, if65500:39:40.000 --> 00:39:44.800



they're paying thirty five dollars an hour for a particular65600:39:44.840 --> 00:39:48.840



position in which they're actually losing forty dollars an hour.65700:39:50.119 --> 00:39:52.559



How are they actually going to keep that business going.65800:39:53.559 --> 00:39:57.079



You know, it's it's very it's a very complicated situation.65900:39:57.280 --> 00:40:01.199



We do need livable wages in this country. The Liverpool66000:40:01.280 --> 00:40:06.400



wages question comes up in childcare, in teaching, in construction.66100:40:07.280 --> 00:40:11.440



It's not related to the farm, farm workers and the farm.66200:40:12.400 --> 00:40:17.000



But the answer, you know, I don't necessarily have a66300:40:17.039 --> 00:40:22.159



good answer for you, because you know, it's just it's66400:40:22.239 --> 00:40:25.199



way it's way too complicated to go into. But I66500:40:25.239 --> 00:40:29.360



will say this to you. I have had clients who66600:40:29.440 --> 00:40:35.119



own construction companies and home care, you know, nursing homes66700:40:35.199 --> 00:40:39.119



where people are trying to get into hospice care, so66800:40:39.239 --> 00:40:41.719



to speak. Because you know, our medical industry has its66900:40:41.719 --> 00:40:45.320



own very big problems. And so when they want to67000:40:45.440 --> 00:40:50.519



hire people for the construction industry or the you know,67100:40:50.639 --> 00:40:54.760



nursing home that he cannot find American workers. And one67200:40:54.760 --> 00:40:56.920



particular business owner said to me, to me, now, I67300:40:57.000 --> 00:40:59.719



was going to pay him exactly what he wanted. He67400:41:00.000 --> 00:41:03.199



showed up, he didn't know which side the hammer was67500:41:03.280 --> 00:41:03.920



up or down.67600:41:05.559 --> 00:41:08.480



I've seen that I've seen that.67700:41:08.760 --> 00:41:13.440



So so you're going to pay somebody, you know, a67800:41:13.559 --> 00:41:15.960



very high wage for not knowing how to do the67900:41:16.079 --> 00:41:17.079



job you just said.68000:41:17.280 --> 00:41:20.239



True, But that's also that I think that also has68100:41:20.519 --> 00:41:24.239



that also is a reflection of how our culture has68200:41:24.360 --> 00:41:27.440



changed over the years. It went from it went from68300:41:27.480 --> 00:41:29.760



being proud of working hard and using your hands to68400:41:30.159 --> 00:41:33.400



playing video games and doing other things to make a living.68500:41:34.119 --> 00:41:37.880



So that could just be generational or cultural shift versus68600:41:37.880 --> 00:41:39.239



what it used to be able to say back in68700:41:39.239 --> 00:41:42.519



the forties and fifties and so on. But I'm not68800:41:42.599 --> 00:41:45.280



I'm not arguing. I'm just I'm just asking the question,68900:41:45.400 --> 00:41:46.880



you know what I'm saying that I think.69000:41:46.719 --> 00:41:51.119



It's a great question because these are provocative thought thought69100:41:51.199 --> 00:41:56.800



provocative issues that if we don't discuss them in an amicable,69200:41:57.400 --> 00:42:02.039



you know, loving way, how would listeners even think about it? Twice?69300:42:02.440 --> 00:42:07.039



You know? And the correlation to that is are we69400:42:07.159 --> 00:42:10.400



really developing the workforce that we need for this country?69500:42:10.400 --> 00:42:13.920



Do we have enough vocation, no training for people who69600:42:14.239 --> 00:42:17.840



can't go to our schools they can't afford, you know,69700:42:17.920 --> 00:42:21.440



the education costs that are required. Are we giving them69800:42:21.519 --> 00:42:26.079



vocational tools and schools? You know, plumbing or becoming electician.69900:42:26.599 --> 00:42:29.719



You know, are we doing enough of that? Are we70000:42:29.880 --> 00:42:34.639



putting enough emphasis on stam education at kindergarten level so70100:42:34.679 --> 00:42:39.000



that the next generation of workforce can do the jobs70200:42:39.039 --> 00:42:41.079



that H one B workers are doing well?70300:42:41.320 --> 00:42:43.559



The other questions, are we going out of our way70400:42:43.599 --> 00:42:46.559



to make those certain positions, whether they be the hands70500:42:46.559 --> 00:42:50.159



on positions you mentioned earlier or the professional positions, or70600:42:50.239 --> 00:42:52.199



are we doing enough to make them attractive to people70700:42:52.239 --> 00:42:54.519



to want to do it? I mean, is it a70800:42:54.559 --> 00:42:56.000



marketing issue?70900:42:57.199 --> 00:43:00.760



Well, totally, it's so complex, George.71000:43:00.920 --> 00:43:03.119



What it is it is we really need.71100:43:03.039 --> 00:43:09.000



The entire society to come together and say we see71200:43:09.000 --> 00:43:12.880



a solution this way. If we don't find the solutions ourselves,71300:43:14.400 --> 00:43:17.119



and we're not invested in the solutions that we're not71400:43:17.199 --> 00:43:21.599



speaking up about what each group of people needs, we're71500:43:21.639 --> 00:43:23.719



never going to have the solution, and we're going to71600:43:23.719 --> 00:43:27.400



get railroaded by executive orders by a handful of people71700:43:27.440 --> 00:43:30.920



who have the money and power to influence everybody else71800:43:30.960 --> 00:43:34.159



and point out these are the problems, but not necessarily71900:43:34.239 --> 00:43:36.320



come up with real working solutions.72000:43:36.719 --> 00:43:40.760



Well, yeah, and the problem with the solution it needs72100:43:40.800 --> 00:43:45.239



a solutions aren't overnight then it needs a very well72200:43:45.320 --> 00:43:49.400



thought out, tested, qualified plan that needs to be put72300:43:49.440 --> 00:43:51.679



in place. And actually when that is put in place,72400:43:51.679 --> 00:43:54.239



you need to stick to it and not be distracted72500:43:54.239 --> 00:43:56.920



and go off course. And I don't think that's something72600:43:56.920 --> 00:44:00.199



that has been done. It's we seem very reactionary when72700:44:00.199 --> 00:44:02.800



it comes to when it comes to the workforce in72800:44:02.840 --> 00:44:06.400



America and to the markets in general, we're reactionary. There's72900:44:06.440 --> 00:44:08.320



not a lot of planning really. I mean, you could73000:44:08.400 --> 00:44:12.360



argue that. Sure, in a business, you have you plan73100:44:12.480 --> 00:44:15.639



your finances, your income versus your overhead. You know, like73200:44:15.679 --> 00:44:17.360



you know your net versus your gross, et cetera, how73300:44:17.440 --> 00:44:19.719



much margin you're making on a sale bunch, your percentages73400:44:19.800 --> 00:44:21.440



of this and that, and you can go through your73500:44:21.480 --> 00:44:24.599



sales cycles versus so you know, hey, in Christmas, I73600:44:24.599 --> 00:44:26.760



know this is going to be huge for me, and73700:44:26.800 --> 00:44:28.960



then after Christmas it's gonna die down. We're gonna take73800:44:28.960 --> 00:44:31.400



some hits because it returns and it's et cetera. Now73900:44:31.559 --> 00:44:34.440



that's just data. You're just taking all that in strapolading74000:44:34.480 --> 00:44:36.480



it and you're analyzing it and then you can make74100:44:36.519 --> 00:44:42.360



certain predictions. But are you truly truly planning for the future?74200:44:42.400 --> 00:44:45.400



Of the actual industry or the workforce down the road,74300:44:45.440 --> 00:44:48.960



because fast forward here we are. Now we're finding less74400:44:49.000 --> 00:44:52.559



and less qualified individuals in the United States to do74500:44:52.599 --> 00:44:54.280



these positions that we need.74600:44:54.199 --> 00:45:02.960



Filled totally, totally, and it's a conversation that everybody should74700:45:03.000 --> 00:45:07.559



be having. And so I'm so glad you're leading the way,74800:45:07.719 --> 00:45:10.840



and I'm trying to make sure people get to hear74900:45:11.000 --> 00:45:15.159



some of these things. It's just imperative, you know.75000:45:15.760 --> 00:45:18.760



I just I just look at things. I'm just, you know,75100:45:18.920 --> 00:45:21.519



nothing special about me, Okay, I'm just an individual that75200:45:22.000 --> 00:45:24.440



I take it in. I look at what's going on,75300:45:24.880 --> 00:45:27.239



and I'm in quisitive. I have to ask these questions.75400:45:27.280 --> 00:45:29.559



I think most people have these questions on their mind,75500:45:29.599 --> 00:45:32.159



but they don't speak out. They don't ask, they don't75600:45:32.159 --> 00:45:34.400



talk about it. They just kind of go, well, that's sad,75700:45:34.400 --> 00:45:35.760



and they sweep it under the rug and they just75800:45:35.840 --> 00:45:39.800



keep moving on with their life. Nobody's really having these75900:45:39.840 --> 00:45:41.920



conversations except for maybe people like you, because this is76000:45:41.920 --> 00:45:44.239



what you do for a living and you see it76100:45:44.559 --> 00:45:47.519



all the time, especially when it relates to you know,76200:45:47.599 --> 00:45:50.360



immigrants and having to deal with these these work visas.76300:45:50.599 --> 00:45:53.360



So you see it first hand. But most people, most76400:45:53.480 --> 00:45:56.079



average people do not see this or even deal with this.76500:45:56.519 --> 00:45:58.639



They just rely on what's going on in social media76600:45:58.679 --> 00:46:01.880



to tell them what's going on. And unfortunately that's not76700:46:02.000 --> 00:46:04.039



the way to go about getting your information.76800:46:05.119 --> 00:46:08.679



Yeah, but you know, love people to just think about76900:46:08.760 --> 00:46:11.800



for a second. You might not need you might not77000:46:12.000 --> 00:46:16.199



visibly be seeing the high skilled workers in your life,77100:46:17.480 --> 00:46:20.320



but the high skilled workers are behind almost everything that77200:46:20.360 --> 00:46:24.280



you're doing. If you're at the office working on Zoom,77300:46:24.679 --> 00:46:28.559



a high skilled immigrant founded Zoom. If you're on your77400:46:28.639 --> 00:46:33.119



phone using WhatsApp or Instagram, uh, these are you know,77500:46:33.159 --> 00:46:36.400



as I mentioned before, the hardware software network in your phone,77600:46:36.880 --> 00:46:40.599



they're being managed immigrants. You know, if you go to77700:46:40.679 --> 00:46:45.039



the grocery store and you're seeing the shiny apples on77800:46:45.800 --> 00:46:49.639



the shelves, immigrants are likely picking them. If you're getting77900:46:49.639 --> 00:46:53.679



the milk seamlessly appearing on your table on your shelf,78000:46:54.320 --> 00:46:58.119



immigrants are likely milking the cow or however they operate78100:46:58.199 --> 00:47:01.159



dairy stuff. If you're finding the toilet paper in the78200:47:01.159 --> 00:47:04.400



grocery store, is because an immigrant is likely driving that truck,78300:47:05.320 --> 00:47:08.800



which you know, obviously was very very prevalent as or78400:47:08.880 --> 00:47:15.119



exposed was exposed during the pandemic. Immigrants are actually the78500:47:15.159 --> 00:47:20.079



fabric of our society, and because it's much of it78600:47:19.599 --> 00:47:23.719



is invisible, those who are just living lives and you know,78700:47:23.800 --> 00:47:28.159



day to day doing or whatever they're doing. It's not apparent,78800:47:28.719 --> 00:47:31.400



but if we didn't have the immigrants, life would be78900:47:31.480 --> 00:47:34.960



falling apart, and that day may be coming soon. Who knows.79000:47:35.000 --> 00:47:38.440



I hope I haven't jinxed us, but it doesn't take79100:47:38.480 --> 00:47:40.519



me to jinx us. You know that the executive orders79200:47:40.519 --> 00:47:41.199



alone will do it.79300:47:41.440 --> 00:47:44.400



I think what gets a little convoluted and everything is79400:47:44.440 --> 00:47:49.079



people trying to trying to throw a blanket over the79500:47:49.119 --> 00:47:52.360



word immigrant, you know, versus those who I don't know79600:47:52.440 --> 00:47:53.920



how you want to phrase it. I know everyone does79700:47:53.920 --> 00:47:57.639



it differently, undocumented, legal, whatever, But I'm just gonna say79800:47:57.719 --> 00:48:02.639



legal immigrants versus legal people were legally here. And I'm79900:48:02.679 --> 00:48:05.599



not sure your feelings because you see firsthand families that80000:48:06.000 --> 00:48:11.159



have to go through this, But what what how do80100:48:11.199 --> 00:48:13.679



we how do we move forward in handling those who80200:48:13.760 --> 00:48:18.039



are here illegally but are trying to be here because80300:48:18.039 --> 00:48:20.840



they're trying to make a better life for themselves. And again,80400:48:20.880 --> 00:48:23.000



I'm I'm gonna keep the politics out of it because80500:48:23.000 --> 00:48:26.960



I know, I know that there are other conversations we80600:48:27.079 --> 00:48:29.960



had with this, to be quite honest, and I've done80700:48:30.000 --> 00:48:32.760



a lot of research that comes straight from the Border80800:48:32.800 --> 00:48:36.000



Patrols data. So I've seen it all, and I've done80900:48:36.000 --> 00:48:37.840



more than one show on this. So there's not much81000:48:37.840 --> 00:48:39.440



you can say about it that I probably wouldn't know81100:48:39.519 --> 00:48:43.119



or could tell you. But yeah, but for those who81200:48:43.199 --> 00:48:45.079



are trying to do it the right way. And and81300:48:45.079 --> 00:48:46.639



this brings me back to a story of a friend81400:48:46.679 --> 00:48:51.800



I have who had to come to this country due81500:48:51.840 --> 00:48:55.159



to I'll just I'll just say he had to come over.81600:48:55.320 --> 00:48:59.400



Grandfather was already here, grandfather was legally here for many years.81700:48:59.679 --> 00:49:02.119



Brought his grandson over to protect him. And he's been81800:49:02.159 --> 00:49:04.079



here for a long time. He actually worked for me81900:49:04.119 --> 00:49:06.800



for a while. He went to university. He's a computer82000:49:06.880 --> 00:49:10.119



science major. He works for a utility company. Guy's brilliant,82100:49:10.440 --> 00:49:13.039



you know, and he's going through a situation. He did82200:49:13.079 --> 00:49:15.360



it the way. He and his family did it the82300:49:15.400 --> 00:49:18.360



right way. They stuck to it the whole deal, even82400:49:18.440 --> 00:49:20.119



if in the beginning he had to just get him82500:49:20.119 --> 00:49:22.440



out to save him, right, his grandfather had to save him.82600:49:22.920 --> 00:49:27.800



But after all that time, legally. He's here illegally period,82700:49:28.320 --> 00:49:29.679



and he's trying to get his wife over here at82800:49:29.840 --> 00:49:33.599



right now. But he's battling this like no matter what82900:49:33.679 --> 00:49:36.480



he does. He's hired multiple lawyers, he's gone through every83000:49:36.519 --> 00:49:39.360



scenario you could think of, and it just keeps getting83100:49:39.400 --> 00:49:43.320



delayed and pushed back. And it's been years and so83200:49:43.360 --> 00:49:48.599



those people, I think some people or most people these days,83300:49:49.159 --> 00:49:52.239



look at every single illegal immigrant. Ask someone who's trying83400:49:52.239 --> 00:49:56.800



to do something bad or they're a bad person. Technically, yeah,83500:49:57.000 --> 00:49:59.480



you're breaking the law, But at the same time, not83600:49:59.639 --> 00:50:04.800



every or person is here for nefarious reasons. How are83700:50:04.840 --> 00:50:08.440



you handling that? Or in your experience, how have you83800:50:08.960 --> 00:50:12.400



seen the perception of people when it comes to that83900:50:12.519 --> 00:50:15.320



distinction of illegal versus those who are legally here or84000:50:15.320 --> 00:50:17.239



do people just not even see the difference.84100:50:17.400 --> 00:50:22.679



Well, this administration, the new one, is not just making84200:50:23.519 --> 00:50:29.639



orders about undocumented immigrants. A lot of the executive orders84300:50:29.719 --> 00:50:35.119



are affecting legal immigrants too. But coming to a very84400:50:35.159 --> 00:50:40.320



basic answer to this very complicated situation is that we84500:50:40.360 --> 00:50:45.920



need immigration reform. Oh we have not had immigration laws,84600:50:46.679 --> 00:50:50.840



comprehensive immigration laws to keep up with the modern society84700:50:50.880 --> 00:50:54.079



that we live. In since the nineteen nineties. And now84800:50:54.119 --> 00:50:57.159



think about how many times over the world has changed84900:50:57.159 --> 00:51:00.599



and evolved, and how many you know, evolution we've had.85000:51:00.719 --> 00:51:05.239



We've you know, industrial revolution, we've had you know the85100:51:05.719 --> 00:51:11.199



Y two K now the AI globalization. The world is85200:51:11.199 --> 00:51:15.000



so much smaller. The laws have not kept up with that.85300:51:15.960 --> 00:51:20.000



In addition to that, America is part of many international treaties,85400:51:20.400 --> 00:51:26.119



including the Human Rights Convention. And you know, nobody is illegal.85500:51:26.239 --> 00:51:31.320



They could be undocumented, but human rights are an incredibly85600:51:31.360 --> 00:51:36.480



important part of American values, and so our laws are85700:51:36.519 --> 00:51:39.800



not necessarily keeping up with what we need for this85800:51:40.079 --> 00:51:43.119



country and what we need for the future. There are85900:51:43.280 --> 00:51:47.039



jobs that need to be done in this country, and86000:51:47.079 --> 00:51:50.119



there are people who want jobs from different countries. There86100:51:50.159 --> 00:51:52.800



are people who want to just stay alive. You know,86200:51:52.960 --> 00:51:56.559



today you talk about cartels and that's a lot. That's86300:51:56.599 --> 00:51:59.880



one of the issues for some of the Latin American countries,86400:52:00.239 --> 00:52:03.920



but other countries are going through wars. There are climate86500:52:04.119 --> 00:52:09.639



change issues that are displacing people. You know, the entire86600:52:09.719 --> 00:52:14.320



world needs to come together and find solutions. But in America,86700:52:14.400 --> 00:52:18.360



we need comprehensive immigration reform to make sure that our86800:52:18.480 --> 00:52:20.440



laws are keeping up with the times.86900:52:20.639 --> 00:52:23.639



Okay, so in your mind, what would that look like?87000:52:23.719 --> 00:52:27.159



Because if we look at it from as you said,87100:52:27.199 --> 00:52:31.880



a humanitarian standpoint, and we do need a reform, we87200:52:31.960 --> 00:52:33.960



absolutely do. It's crazy how long it takes to get87300:52:33.960 --> 00:52:36.559



things done in the system, and there's no reason anybody87400:52:36.559 --> 00:52:39.440



has to wait ten years, fifty years, seventy years. I mean,87500:52:39.440 --> 00:52:41.960



that's just stupid. It makes no sense to me. But87600:52:43.280 --> 00:52:48.280



with your statement of there's no illegal, there's just undocumented, right,87700:52:48.639 --> 00:52:52.039



it's all about humanity. So by that statement, does that87800:52:52.079 --> 00:52:57.079



mean the entire world every country should accept everyone equally?87900:52:57.119 --> 00:53:00.239



Should it just be an open system for anyone want88000:53:00.239 --> 00:53:03.920



to just travel in and out of each country without restriction?88100:53:05.239 --> 00:53:07.880



No, I don't. I think there should be agreements between88200:53:07.920 --> 00:53:12.199



countries to make sure that there are global solutions. When's88300:53:12.880 --> 00:53:16.320



you know, climate change that is you know, wiping away88400:53:16.840 --> 00:53:20.360



you know, land for people to live in. You know,88500:53:20.440 --> 00:53:25.480



my my heritage is from Bangladesh. It's a small country88600:53:25.519 --> 00:53:28.599



next to India. It's probably going to be under the88700:53:28.599 --> 00:53:32.320



ocean in the next fifty two hundred years. Maldives might88800:53:32.360 --> 00:53:35.159



be one of those. I'm just saying there has to88900:53:35.199 --> 00:53:39.400



be both solutions. World leaders go to you know, Davos89000:53:39.800 --> 00:53:43.800



or wherever. There has to be world solutions. But for89100:53:43.960 --> 00:53:47.360



our immedia issue, we are in America, we are at89200:53:47.400 --> 00:53:53.800



the we have borders, we are bordering Canada and Mexico.89300:53:55.119 --> 00:53:59.039



You know, there has to be solutions that come from Legypt,89400:53:59.079 --> 00:54:02.039



that take into the taken into account the values that89500:54:02.079 --> 00:54:07.159



we live by and finding common solutions. And do I89600:54:07.280 --> 00:54:10.400



have an answer? No, you know, I'm just one person89700:54:10.400 --> 00:54:12.920



who advocates for what is what I feel is right89800:54:13.239 --> 00:54:15.840



for the highest good. But the people that hold the89900:54:15.920 --> 00:54:19.800



power can't seem to agree on anything. It's become a90000:54:19.920 --> 00:54:24.360



very divisive issue. But if we could go back to90100:54:24.480 --> 00:54:29.400



love as a source of energy in our world, that90200:54:29.599 --> 00:54:33.679



every human being deserves love, and every human being deserve90300:54:34.519 --> 00:54:39.280



a way to just live, why can't we come up90400:54:39.320 --> 00:54:46.159



with solutions that that can actually everybody and everybody does90500:54:46.199 --> 00:54:48.960



their own share. I'm not saying America should take everybody90600:54:48.960 --> 00:54:52.400



in anybody. I'm saying that we need to have comprehensive90700:54:52.440 --> 00:54:57.440



immigration reform actually can find some solutions, and right now90800:54:57.480 --> 00:55:02.079



we have nothing. Oh sorry, it's three o'clock. I have90900:55:02.159 --> 00:55:04.599



to go this. This type of conversation can go on91000:55:04.840 --> 00:55:08.760



all day long. And so I'm so sorry I have91100:55:08.760 --> 00:55:10.480



to leave at three because I have a call coming up,91200:55:10.519 --> 00:55:12.119



but I just wanted to make sure that you knew91300:55:12.159 --> 00:55:14.320



that before we dive into something else.91400:55:14.559 --> 00:55:19.679



Right, Well, if we have to cut it off for now,91500:55:19.719 --> 00:55:21.559



we'll just have to pick up on another show if91600:55:21.880 --> 00:55:22.360



we're available.91700:55:22.920 --> 00:55:27.159



So sure, totally, totally, But you know, I so appreciate it, George,91800:55:27.199 --> 00:55:31.039



because these are the conversations that need to happen.91900:55:31.480 --> 00:55:33.519



And yeah, I mean there's there's still so much for92000:55:33.599 --> 00:55:36.320



us to talk about in regard to just immigration law92100:55:36.360 --> 00:55:39.840



and everything. But regardless, why don't you just quickly let92200:55:39.840 --> 00:55:41.920



everybody know where they can find you and whatnot. And92300:55:42.599 --> 00:55:44.480



I'm sure you and I will be talking again, I hope,92400:55:44.679 --> 00:55:45.519



and we can do this again.92500:55:45.559 --> 00:55:48.320



I would love that. I would love that. Well, George,92600:55:48.320 --> 00:55:52.000



thank you so much for having me. If they want92700:55:52.000 --> 00:55:54.840



to connect with LinkedIn, you can find me there to92800:55:54.960 --> 00:55:59.159



Mina Watson, and my website at my law firm is92900:55:59.400 --> 00:56:02.800



what immigration Law dot com. And I am an author.93000:56:02.840 --> 00:56:06.079



Thank you for mentioning mentioning that My author page is93100:56:06.119 --> 00:56:08.840



Tamina Watson dot com. And I have a couple of93200:56:08.840 --> 00:56:11.199



podcasts that are all you can't you can't miss me,93300:56:11.480 --> 00:56:12.880



you know, just google me or find me.93400:56:13.519 --> 00:56:15.840



Okay, all right, well, thanks for your time and again,93500:56:15.920 --> 00:56:18.119



let's let's please do this again. I think we have93600:56:18.199 --> 00:56:20.599



to pick up and do this again and just have yes,93700:56:20.679 --> 00:56:21.679



just for this conversation.93800:56:22.639 --> 00:56:25.280



It's good. Okay, that sounds good. Thank you again, George93900:56:25.280 --> 00:56:26.320



for finding me. Take care.94000:56:26.480 --> 00:56:29.559



Yeah, thanks, okay, thanks, thank you for listening. And I94100:56:29.599 --> 00:56:34.400



hope you found that conversation informative. Please like, subscribe and94200:56:34.480 --> 00:56:36.519



share the show with others, and don't forget to turn94300:56:36.559 --> 00:56:40.440



on notifications for world Ablaze. Also visit us at our94400:56:40.440 --> 00:56:44.360



website world Ablaze podcast dot com and you could buy94500:56:44.480 --> 00:56:46.880



me a coffee as well. That link is also on94600:56:46.960 --> 00:56:51.639



our website. Have a great day.