Aug. 15, 2025

Evan Longin - Author | Psychology | Speaker

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I sit down and have a conversation with Even Longin, author, psychologist, and speaker. Even wrote the book, 'The Root of Evil'. We discussed hos theories on how evil is both rooted and accepted in society, which quickly turns into a conversation about Trump and world events.This conversation showcases how 2 people with opposite sides of the aisle can have a conversation and eventually meet on the middle.

Watch the video episode on YouTube and Rumble:

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WEBVTT

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Tay my osiy like you just let me in my way.

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Welcome world to Blaze listeners and now watchers. As promised,

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I am doing video episodes, and as I stated previously,

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for those who do listen to my audio only episodes,

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I am primarily focusing on guest episodes and where those

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will be video because I just believe it's better to

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be able to see people's reactions for better context. You

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can see people's faces, et cetera. Welcome to Episode eighty

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and on today's episode, I have guest Evan Longen. Evan

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Longen is a psychologist of forty five years. He used

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to have his private practice. He also taught psycho therapy

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and he's a published author. He wrote the book The

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Root of Evil, and in that book he discusses how

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it is possible that evil can creep into society without

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us even knowing it. And of course this discussion definitely

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goes in the direction of Trump. We discuss Trump as

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many consider him to be evil or hitler or a dictator,

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and so that discussion has had But then we shift

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from domestic politics and talk about conflicts abroad. We talk

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about Israel, Gaza, and of course we discuss Russia and Ukraine.

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I really do hope you enjoy this episode. Evan's a

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very intelligent person, and this is a great episode to

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watch because in this episode you see that two people

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that don't necessarily agree. I'm not a democrat of the

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left and Devan is definitely not of the right, but

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we were still able to come together, have a discussion

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and even offer solutions that work, I mean, just makes

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sense for everybody, for humans living on the planet in

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a way that we can coexist in respec back to

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each other. So, without further ado, here is Evan Longan.

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So thank you for taking the time and coming onto

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the show. And as we just discussed earlier before I

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press record appropriate, giving what's going on in California, before

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we move on, I want to go ahead, and I

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mean the background that I see here on you had

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You were a psychologists before the private practice. Is this true? Yes? Okay?

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And you taught psychotherapy for over forty five years or

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so is that correct?

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Yes?

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Okay, awesome? And then you became an author that book

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The Root of Evil? And was that released in twenty

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twenty two or twenty twenty three.

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Twenty twenty At the end of twenty twenty two.

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So right on that cusp of transitioning into twenty three. Yes,

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and you're known for that. You sold a few copies

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for sure, and you do discuss it and the subjects

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in here. Now, I'm a politics and geopolitics show, but

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I do like to venture onto other areas.

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Yeah.

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That being said, I think a lot of what you

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wrote in what you study is very appropriate to what's

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going on today. I did want to ask you, though,

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before we dive into that. Excuse me while I turn

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this up, that that you mentioned something I'm reading here,

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you your bio about how psychotherapy I believe, if I'm

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getting this correct, can fail society or it can lead Yes, okay.

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Yeah, Yeah, That's how I got interested in this whole

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idea of the breakdown of institutions and the breakdown of

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the body politic because in my own field we failed

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people frequently.

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Okay.

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I originally was a fellow at the Nathan Ackerman Family Institute,

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where I studied post doc and family therapy, and one

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of the things we noted back then was that the

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person who's the identified patient may in fact be the

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person who is most likely to bring new perspective to

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the family, and over and over again in my career,

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I was given very difficult cases that were not responding

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to treatment, and they found that they weren't responding to

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treatment because they were treating the wrong person. That the

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person that was the hospitalized or identified patient was not

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the problem. And I have a case that I talk

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about in my book that's the simplest one to understand.

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I get a call from a mother who tells me

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that her doctor, her pediatrician, had referred her family to

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me that her son had just been excluded from school

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after he went back to school and knocked out all

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the windows on the first floor of the school. This

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is an eight year old boy. So I said to

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the mother, well, okay, I'm more than happy to see you.

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I want to see you tomorrow with your whole family

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and with the boy and we'll all talk about what's

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going on. And the first thing she says to me, no, no, no, no, no,

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you don't get it. My son is the problem. We

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don't need to come in. And I said, ah, well,

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you have to humor me, because this is how I work.

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I like to see a family together, get a feel

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for what the dynamics are that are going on in

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the family, and if you want to bring your son in,

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I'm more than happy to see you. She said, well,

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I'm not coming in. I said, well, listen, then go

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back to your pediatrician and get a referral to someone else.

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She said, well, the doctor said you're the best around.

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I said, well, thank you, So if you want my help,

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come in. So the next day she arrives her husband

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and herself and her son, but she didn't bring her daughter.

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And I said to her, where's your daughter? And she said,

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my daughter's not a problem. My son's the problem, and

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you've got to fix him. Well you see where this

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is going obviously, absolutely yea. So they all come into

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the office, the three of them, and I say to

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this son, would you do me a favor, Take your

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chair and bring it up next to me. I want

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you to be my assistant therapist. And he goes really,

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and I said, yeah, I'd like you to help me.

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And the mother goes, when is this What are you doing?

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You're rewarding him for being a bad kid. I said, no,

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I'm getting him to participate and to feel safe and

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to join me in exploring what's going on in the family. Well,

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to make a long story short. Ultimately she's about to

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leave when the father says, I can't take it anymore.

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My wife was out cold on the floor when he

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came home from school. She's drunk, she's out of control,

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and he, in his own way, went looking for help.

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I said, Wow, that's really impressive. Dead. So I've seen

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so much of that. I've seen where it's so easy

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to look at a situation and blame that person, and

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so often if that kid had been treated in a

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more traditional setting, he would have been in therapy forever

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with no progress.

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Well because the mother would to mask her own actions

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and her own behavior. Yes, it's effective family units.

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So those are the kinds of situations that's as blatant

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one as I can can share. One of the we

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worked with a team. We would have a team of

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people who sat in the room with me, and the

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family would sit with other members of my team being interviewed,

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and then the family would we would talk amongst ourselves

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about the things we heard. In this one instance, a

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young man who had been in McLean's Hospitals, a famous

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say chiatric facility, and had been removed because he wasn't

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making progress, sat with us on our team, and the

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mother and the father and the sister were talking on

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the other side of the room, and after they finished talking,

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he looked at us and he said, holy cow, is

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it possible that I did the things I did because

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I knew my mother was so depressed and I needed

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to do it to help the family? Is that? And

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this came spontaneously from this twelve year old boy. So again,

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over and over and over, I have been called into

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difficult situations that don't get better because that's treating the

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wrong situation, the wrong problem, right, That's how I got

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into this.

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Yeah, that's common in the medical industry in general. I mean, yes, yeah,

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that's unfortunate. So with that that being said, is that

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that is how why you got into doing what you're

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doing and why you chose to get on the path

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of researching. And in your book you do give you

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your opinions on how evil can easily sneak into society.

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Now does this tie into that? Do you think?

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Yeah? Again, what I started to see in situations in

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the families that work with. And by the way, I

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also back back around nineteen twenty ten that era. For

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five years I was in the Middle East, working with

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Palestinian and Israeli children, bringing them together to talk with

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each other and to learn about each other and to collaborate.

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So my experience went from being a psychotherapist to working

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in issues in the community. But what I saw over

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and over again was one binary thinking us versus them

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in the case of the Middle East, Israelis versus Palestinians.

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In today's California, the weight majority versus minority immigrants, they're

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seen as different, they're seen as other. The second thing

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is power over behavior, where the psychiatrist or the teacher

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or the politician uses power to control situations that should

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come about in a more collaborative discussion between people. The

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third piece is the control of information. Today, today a

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blatant thing happened. I don't know if you saw. Senator

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Padilla was tackled when he was trying to ask questions

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of the Secretary of Homeland Security.

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I did not see that today. Yet he was.

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Thrown to the ground, he was handcuffed, And the story

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that MAGA is putting out is that they didn't know

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who he was, he didn't identify himself. Well, you can

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watch the TV reporting of this, so you can see

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he's going I'm Senator Padilla, I mean said and throwing

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him to the ground. So again there's a distortion of information.

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Information is corrupted, we don't get the truth. And the

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final the final piece that I found was people come

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up with simplistic solutions to complex problems.

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Yeah, they do.

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So instead of they're saying, Okay, this is going to

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require some thought. We're going to have to work together.

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Both sides have to come together and collaborate to come

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up with a solution. Unfortunately, in all the instances that

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I put in my book of Evil, in the community,

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in the college, in psychotherapy, we come up with simplistic solutions.

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This kid broke the windows. He needs to be the patient.

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It's it's too often a simplistic approach to something that

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requires more in depth discussion and collaboration.

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Well, because punishment's not treating the cause right or the

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root of why they behave that way right. So that

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all being said, it's in society, I mean, we'll just

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dive into because we're already talking about things that are

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going on. Obviously, Trump administration repolarizing figure. Some people approve,

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some people don't, but regardless of some people see him

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as a dictator, fascist, evil person. Fine, so let's talk

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about how or if you can explain rather because you're

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the expert in this is from your viewpoint, How does

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evil creep in? How does it get accepted to society?

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And how do these cults get formed where people are

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just willingly, just blindly following the leader. How does this happen?

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How does it happen? I just got back from Europe.

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I was in Germany in Austria, and I was struck

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by what a wonderful culture, historic culture, the German Austrian

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culture has been over generations. How was it possible that

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people joined with Adolf Hitler in this horrendous movement that

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was so inhuman, so evil, so dastardly. I don't know

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whether the were to you.

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That is the prime example of evil sneaking in and

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become acceptable, right.

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And being accepted. My senses, you need people to be frightened,

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You need people to feel like they're not being heard.

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I didn't spend enough time in my book talking about that.

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The reason why Hitler took hold is the people of

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Germany felt like they were mistreated after World War One.

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They were poor, they were hungry, they wanted more opportunity,

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and Hitler was giving them a sense of the power,

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sense of being heard. Trump is doing exactly the same thing.

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Trump listened to people who were feeling left out, feeling

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like to peopleeople who felt like they weren't given the

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same opportunities as others. Unfortunately, those people are not being

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represented by Trump. He is not making it any easier

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for them to buy eggs, He's not making it any

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easier for them to have access. In fact, his whole

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political economic strategy is he's going to give more money

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to the rich and then ultimately that's going to seep

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down to the poor people. So again they they they

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think he's he is speaking to their hurt and their

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anger and their receptive to it. That's how it happens,

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I think.

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I mean, he can't argue against that. That is that

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is usually how most any leader who gets elected, though

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it comes into power regardless. I mean, you're you're trying

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to play it to people's sympathies, right, That's usually what But.

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The problem the problem with with Trump, with Hitler, with

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other meglomaniacs is that they really uh don't offer solutions

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that will make the situation any better. They offer false

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solutions that ultimately create more problems.

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It's interesting do you think some of some of because

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he is an interesting person to talk about. I mean,

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he's never never had a president like this ever, and

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it's it. I I will I will say that I

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don't agree with how he acts in public, Like he's

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not presidential, you know, and and the and the thing

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that that he does, Like why are we airing out

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grievances on social media? For example, that whole spat between

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him and Elon Musk and whoever wants to speak up

248
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against him, Like that's, let's kind of closed door conversation, right,

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you work that out, You keep that, you keep that

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out of the public. In my opinion, do you feel

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Trump though, at times where he does have success, do

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you think it's intentional or just accidental? Like things just

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kind of half hal hazardly come together and he just

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claims the win.

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Look, Unfortunately, in each of these situations that I think

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evil comes about, the person is not open to collaboration.

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The person is not open to being in a discussion

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that brings together multiple ideas and then work out as

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best a solution as you can. Trump, unfortunately, besides being

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vulgar and crass, doesn't respect. He speaks badly about anybody

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who disagrees with him. He calls them communist, he calls

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them we he calls them all kinds of names. But

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he doesn't say, Okay, I want to talk with them,

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let's sit down and talk about what's the best way

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to go forward. And that was my sense when I

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was in Middle East. Those people never understood that both

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sides had reasonable claims to their position.

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Okay, it wasn't that.

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The Israelis were correct or that the Palestinians were correct.

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They both had legitimate claims that needed to be listened to,

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and unfortunately the powers that be continue to vilify the other.

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Side right right, Well that's not uncommon though. You know,

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each side things they're right, each side things that they're owed,

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whatever it is they believe is old to them. That

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situation like that, that's that goes back a very long ways,

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it really does. I don't I don't know if we're

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ever going to come to a solution on as far

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as that goes, I would hope. So, I mean, I

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don't think that the Palestinian people themselves need to be

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caught in the middle between what's allegedly happening between Hamas

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and you know, Israel. But it's it's just it's just

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sad that I think that those people have to go

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through this and they're they're the ones being stuck in

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the middle between the two fighting, and they're being used,

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you know, they're being used not just as shields but

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absolutely both they are.

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Again, that's the problem. The problem is that's to me,

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has all the makings of evil. Us versus them, power

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over behavior. I'm stronger than you, so.

290
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I'll fuck you up, right, Yeah.

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Simplistic solutions out below the hell out of Gaza and

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the Hamas.

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Will disappear, right, which is not the right place not

294
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tell the.

295
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Truth about the political realities that are governing why these

296
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people are behaving this way, the powers are behaving this way.

297
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Nettan Yahoo has all kinds of political agenda that have

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00:20:21.799 --> 00:20:26.759
nothing to do with Hamas, and yet that will be

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his his calling card. I'm going to save israelis from Hamas.

300
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So what do you think So what is his actual

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political okay, example of his political agenda outside of He's

302
00:20:39.519 --> 00:20:42.839
going to save Israel from Hamas? What what do you

303
00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:44.519
think it is he wants to achieve?

304
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He wants to maintain power.

305
00:20:46.599 --> 00:20:48.400
Well, yeah, right, he.

306
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Is in cahoots with the ultra Orthodox and he needs

307
00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:58.160
their support. He has been much like Trump, he has

308
00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:02.279
been indicted on a number of crimes that he does

309
00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:04.880
not want to sit before the court. In fact, he's

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trying to change the nature of the court. Right, So

311
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those other agenda are part of what are driving him

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to do what he does.

313
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Okay, And so how do you feel about the sudden

314
00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:25.200
thinning out or pulling out of you know, our embassies

315
00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:26.279
in the Middle East? Right now?

316
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Is it?

317
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Is it? Basically you think the US or Trump saying, Hey,

318
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I had nothing to do with this. Now, who's doing

319
00:21:35.559 --> 00:21:37.279
whatever he's going to do. We can't stop them, we

320
00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:41.559
can't control them. He's not listening. The reports are there

321
00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:43.799
is a verge of well, they're on the verge of

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00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:47.240
attacking Iran for example, Yes, which is what the hot

323
00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:51.640
topic is, which is a bad thing. Regardless, Yes, what

324
00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:53.039
do you think the move was there?

325
00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:53.279
Then?

326
00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:59.440
As far as Trump administrations concerned, Trump.

327
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Thought he had an easy solution to the situation in

328
00:22:04.519 --> 00:22:07.960
the Middle East. He thought he had an easy solution

329
00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:12.359
to the Russian Ukraine war. Right, Neither one of those

330
00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:15.960
things are turning out to be easy solutions and require

331
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a lot more in depth analysis and discussion than he understood.

332
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Now he sees that Netta Yahoo is as crazy as

333
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he is, and that Neta Yahoo can't be dealt with

334
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in a way that he anticipated Netta Yahoo would be.

335
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And it scares him to think that all of a sudden,

336
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the Middle East is going to blow up into a

337
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major conflagration.

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I mean, they were always in the verge since the

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beginning of time, it seems as well. So let's talk

340
00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:57.200
about that Ukraine piece then, So does the world really

341
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seem you know, both the world blames the US for

342
00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:04.799
that situation for whatever reason? Do you think that Trump

343
00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:08.400
is really the blame for this situation? And is it

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solely fall.

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Name for which situation? I mean, he certainly wasn't Ukraine Russia? Yeah,

346
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I think the one to blame. There is another egomaniac

347
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:26.079
named Putin, right, and Putin was determined to make a

348
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greater Soviet Union again, Yeah, and he's thought he again

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00:23:31.240 --> 00:23:36.559
misread simplistic solution to a complex problem. He misread the

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00:23:36.599 --> 00:23:41.160
situation in the Ukraine that they would be easy marks

351
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for him to march in and him take over a

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part of their territory. So again it starts, I think

353
00:23:49.720 --> 00:23:55.079
with Putin. Unfortunately, again, Trump, being who he is and

354
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his his sense that he has this charisma that can

355
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make other people bend to his ways. Thought that Putin

356
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would come around and he would come up with an

357
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alliance and they would solve the Russian Ukraine problem, just

358
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like he did with Netanyahu. Unfortunately, he's dealing with people

359
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who are much the same as he is. And then

360
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you got guys like Erdawan and Turkey and Orebon and Hungry,

361
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all these people that he aligns himself with that are

362
00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:42.359
also of the same ilk. So I mean, think about

363
00:24:42.440 --> 00:24:45.440
the simplistic solutions that he's coming up with while he's

364
00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:54.880
alienating NATO, our historic allies, making like they have robbing us.

365
00:24:55.839 --> 00:25:01.480
That's such misinformation. Again, it's so interesting. Have you been

366
00:25:01.480 --> 00:25:02.680
in Europe recently?

367
00:25:02.920 --> 00:25:04.000
No, I have not.

368
00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:08.440
Europe is so far ahead of us in their lifestyle.

369
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They have buses that don't give off missions. They have

370
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lights when you go into the room to go on

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and off. They have escalators at the airport that shut

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00:25:18.920 --> 00:25:23.119
down if there's nobody running on them. They have streets

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that are paved. We are becoming a third world country.

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He's telling everybody we're the greatest country in the world.

375
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My eyes tell me that you go to a place

376
00:25:36.279 --> 00:25:43.240
like Spain or France. They live so much healthier lifestyles.

377
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They take breaks in the middle of the day, they

378
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don't work the number of hours we work. They get

379
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all these benefits that he calls the socialist conspiracy. They

380
00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:55.920
get their they get their medicine paid for, they get

381
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their education paid for, they get their home googling and

382
00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:04.640
paid for it for their children. And we're talking about

383
00:26:04.680 --> 00:26:09.559
them like they're crazy people. We aren't getting the facts

384
00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:11.599
out there for us to listen to.

385
00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:17.519
Yeah, but our situation has gone This is years in

386
00:26:17.559 --> 00:26:20.920
the making. This isn't specific to any Republican or Democratic

387
00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:23.680
president regardless. It's been going on for quite some time.

388
00:26:24.799 --> 00:26:26.920
But it's been taken to an extreme.

389
00:26:27.160 --> 00:26:30.200
Well, it has because people tend to not like Trump.

390
00:26:30.839 --> 00:26:34.640
And you know, call it what you will, but you know,

391
00:26:34.680 --> 00:26:38.079
when everybody is doing everything they can to focus the

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00:26:38.119 --> 00:26:41.880
messaging on Trump. Bad, Hey, Trump, he's going to be

393
00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:42.880
the scapegoat of everything.

394
00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:43.039
Now.

395
00:26:43.079 --> 00:26:45.400
He's not perfect. I've already admitted that, and he does

396
00:26:46.119 --> 00:26:48.720
do some stupid things. I mean, we can't. I'm not

397
00:26:48.759 --> 00:26:49.960
gonna sit here and pat him on the back all

398
00:26:50.039 --> 00:26:52.319
day because I can't. You know, we can't deny. It's

399
00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:54.759
like I scratch my head constantly, like what are you doing?

400
00:26:55.119 --> 00:26:57.400
You know? Sometimes I'm like, okay, you got something, but

401
00:26:57.440 --> 00:26:59.119
then you got a question what was that accidental?

402
00:26:59.400 --> 00:26:59.440
To?

403
00:26:59.599 --> 00:27:02.440
Just was it really planned? I have no idea. He's

404
00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:05.720
definitely going to be studied for years, I believe. Now,

405
00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:08.279
as far as Ukraine goes, let's talk about that, because

406
00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:11.759
that whole thing started way back in fact during the

407
00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:15.480
Obama administration. Everybody turned their back when Russia took over

408
00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:18.839
the Crimean it was annexed. Nobody stepped in to help

409
00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:22.400
Ukraine at that point. Here we go fast forward. Russia's

410
00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:24.920
trying to do it again because, as you said, Putin

411
00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:28.400
wants to reunite the old USSR. That's always been his goal.

412
00:27:28.440 --> 00:27:31.519
He's never hit it. He's said it many, many, many times.

413
00:27:31.799 --> 00:27:34.799
He's getting older. There's a legacy issue for him. He's

414
00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:36.680
getting older. He's been in power for a long time.

415
00:27:36.759 --> 00:27:38.880
I think it's now or never for him. Now. I

416
00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:42.440
call this a Cold World War III, because reality is

417
00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:45.079
China is involved. They have troops there, although they're claiming

418
00:27:45.079 --> 00:27:47.319
they're not involved in the war. They have North Korean

419
00:27:47.319 --> 00:27:50.279
troops there, and Iran has been sending technology and drones

420
00:27:50.279 --> 00:27:52.799
and other things to support this war as well. Everybody

421
00:27:52.839 --> 00:27:54.960
else has done nothing. Let's just be quite honest. Europe

422
00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:59.000
hasn't done anything. Ker Starmer talks loud, mccron talks loud.

423
00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:03.039
Nobody does it thing. The United Kingdom signed one hundred

424
00:28:03.079 --> 00:28:07.599
year agreement with Ukraine way before the incident happened in

425
00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:10.480
the White House between Zelensky and Trump. By the way,

426
00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:15.319
signed in January twenty twenty five, where they committed to

427
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:19.920
build up their economic trade okay using by the way

428
00:28:21.880 --> 00:28:24.880
UK trade partners and trade channels. They were gonna bulsh

429
00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:28.039
their business, help them with their minerals, and protect them.

430
00:28:28.279 --> 00:28:30.079
A one hundred year agreement that was signed January twenty

431
00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:33.480
twenty five. Nothing has happened. Nothing outside of maybe sending

432
00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:35.519
a little bit of money, maybe they get a little

433
00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:38.799
bit of munitions. Even Kris Starmer said, hey, we're gonna

434
00:28:38.839 --> 00:28:41.559
We're gonna go ahead and we're gonna ramp everything up.

435
00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:44.640
We're gonna put boots on the ground. Hasn't happened. Nobody's

436
00:28:44.680 --> 00:28:46.519
putting boots on the ground, it doesn't matter who it is.

437
00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:48.960
Yet the US is blamed for the whole thing because

438
00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:52.559
we're seeing as the superpower what's stopping Europe. Poland is

439
00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:56.519
on the ready. Poland has been very very much on

440
00:28:56.559 --> 00:28:58.720
the ready and protecting their border and ready to go.

441
00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:02.000
But the reality is nobody wants a nuclear war. Nobody

442
00:29:02.039 --> 00:29:03.799
wants to admit that they No one's really coming out

443
00:29:03.799 --> 00:29:05.599
and say that that's the only reason they're letting putin.

444
00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:08.480
Do you know doing anything he does? Now you take

445
00:29:08.519 --> 00:29:11.680
that into account that China at anytime they're saying they

446
00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:14.319
don't support this, but yet they're sending troops and then

447
00:29:14.319 --> 00:29:18.920
they're playing games over there in Taiwan. So this situation

448
00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:22.839
is bad regardless if Europe steps in. If you're up

449
00:29:22.839 --> 00:29:26.640
steps in, China might say, cool, here's our opportunity. While

450
00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:29.119
everybody's focused over here in the US might have to

451
00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:31.279
go and help their allies. They're going to move in

452
00:29:31.319 --> 00:29:35.160
on Taiwan. Right, So, while the US gets the blame

453
00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:37.319
and Trump gets a blame, this thing was debacled. This

454
00:29:37.480 --> 00:29:41.599
was a mess since Obama. Nothing happened under the Biden administration. Either,

455
00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:45.920
nobody wanted to step foot, everybody talk loud, nobody did anything.

456
00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:49.039
I personally think it's time to pull our heads out

457
00:29:49.039 --> 00:29:51.359
of our ass. Trump needs to go in and we

458
00:29:51.400 --> 00:29:53.359
need to do something because we also have an agreement

459
00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:55.759
with the Ukraine. Are we really going to be protecting them?

460
00:29:55.880 --> 00:29:58.240
Is the UK going to protect them? Or is everybody

461
00:29:58.319 --> 00:30:01.079
just going to posture and try to win brownie points,

462
00:30:01.079 --> 00:30:03.799
you know in the media by saying, Hey, I'm speaking

463
00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:06.519
tough to Putin. Putin don't give a damn. Putin can

464
00:30:06.559 --> 00:30:09.720
care less. He's already called everybody's bluff. So what's the

465
00:30:09.720 --> 00:30:13.200
next step. We could point the finger who's the blame?

466
00:30:13.240 --> 00:30:15.400
But who step?

467
00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:17.960
I don't want to talk about who's the blame?

468
00:30:18.519 --> 00:30:20.440
No, I know I've said, but everyone's doing that right now.

469
00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:22.400
So I'm saying, like, who's going to stay? We need

470
00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:23.880
a solution, We need a solution.

471
00:30:24.039 --> 00:30:26.759
This goes back, This goes back to the fall of

472
00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:32.039
the Russian Empire. Yes, yes, we made some very tactical

473
00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:38.680
errors in closing in on Russia with NATO. I think I.

474
00:30:38.839 --> 00:30:40.359
Don't disagree with that. By the way, I think I

475
00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:42.240
think that was a bad move. It really was.

476
00:30:42.279 --> 00:30:45.000
It was a bad move, And I think what we

477
00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:49.119
created going way back, so we're going back into the

478
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:55.119
twentieth century. That Uh, lots of errors have been made,

479
00:30:55.599 --> 00:31:01.799
a lot of simplistic solutions to complex problems. I'm not

480
00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:06.119
here to blame Trump for having caused this. What I

481
00:31:06.319 --> 00:31:10.519
do concern myself with is when he says things like

482
00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:20.960
the Ukraine attacked Russia, that those kinds of misinformation are problematic.

483
00:31:21.319 --> 00:31:22.880
And I agree with you, I do.

484
00:31:23.480 --> 00:31:26.720
I think that's wrong, and I'm agreeing with you too.

485
00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:31.240
I mean, it's very scary because if we back Russia

486
00:31:31.759 --> 00:31:34.319
into a position where they feel they have to strike

487
00:31:34.359 --> 00:31:40.880
out with nuclear weapons, we'll have a horrendous situation. So

488
00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:44.240
we don't want to do that. But it's very important

489
00:31:44.839 --> 00:31:48.799
I think for the United States to stand with its

490
00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:54.000
allies and say we we will confront this together, not

491
00:31:54.559 --> 00:31:59.759
to blame them, not to distort this as we have

492
00:31:59.839 --> 00:32:04.160
no problem with Russia. We do the Russian The Russian

493
00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:09.240
situation is problematic for us and for them, And and

494
00:32:09.319 --> 00:32:12.000
I keep coming back to this. The solutions are collaborative,

495
00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:17.240
The solutions are discussion. The solutions are looking at both

496
00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:22.480
sides of an issue. Russia needs protection, Russia needs to

497
00:32:22.519 --> 00:32:26.559
know that NATO is not going to infringe upon them, right,

498
00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:31.279
Russia needs to know that they're going to have us

499
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:36.440
access to selling their goods again and building back their economy.

500
00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:43.759
There needs to be people coming together, collaborating in a

501
00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:49.079
sensible dialogue instead of us against them, whoever them is.

502
00:32:50.599 --> 00:32:55.319
You're spot on there, because everybody wants to be everyone

503
00:32:55.319 --> 00:32:58.519
wants to take credit at this point, right, the UK

504
00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:00.839
wants to be the one to say, look, solution I have,

505
00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:04.920
We're the hero. France, same thing. Obviously Trump's doing the

506
00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:08.240
same thing. It's it's a it's a really dire situation

507
00:33:08.440 --> 00:33:11.039
because the people that are suffering, the people in the

508
00:33:11.119 --> 00:33:15.759
Ukraine period, Zelensky cannot win this war. He can't on

509
00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:19.279
his own. Like I said, everybody's sending munitions and money,

510
00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:22.160
but that's not going to win it. It's going to

511
00:33:22.279 --> 00:33:26.680
have to be numbers, bodies, boots, period. That's the only

512
00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:29.200
thing that's going to work. But people don't realize that.

513
00:33:29.359 --> 00:33:34.559
I'm concerned if you start sending boots in exescalate exactly.

514
00:33:34.599 --> 00:33:39.160
That's that's that's the crux of it, right, agree. So again,

515
00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:42.440
I you're very knowledgeable about this, George, But my sense

516
00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:48.480
is both sides have reasonable positions that need to be heard.

517
00:33:48.680 --> 00:33:50.920
No, agreed, agreed, and I was I was going to

518
00:33:50.960 --> 00:33:53.079
echo what you said earlier about Rump.

519
00:33:53.079 --> 00:33:57.160
Was the success in this last election because he heard

520
00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:01.759
the voices of people who were in pain that the

521
00:34:01.839 --> 00:34:09.239
Democrats were talking about all kinds of what's the word

522
00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:19.960
for it, social issues? Should transgender people play sports rather

523
00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:23.079
than talk about the price of eggs, rather than talk

524
00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:26.119
about the fact that people are feeling cut off and

525
00:34:26.159 --> 00:34:32.480
they don't have access. Again, is this country cannot operate

526
00:34:32.679 --> 00:34:38.079
without immigrants, even illegal immigrants. What's happening? What's happening in

527
00:34:38.079 --> 00:34:41.079
my own community. I was sitting in the diner the

528
00:34:41.159 --> 00:34:45.039
other day in Salem, Massachusetts, and the waitress said to me,

529
00:34:45.639 --> 00:34:48.599
you know what's happened. None of the Hispanic people come

530
00:34:48.639 --> 00:34:51.719
here anymore. They're all frightened. They're all frightened. They're going

531
00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:55.199
to get rounded up. There used to be all these

532
00:34:55.360 --> 00:34:57.880
workers at home Depot who would line up there every

533
00:34:57.880 --> 00:35:03.199
morning to help tractors and landscapers and all kinds off.

534
00:35:03.239 --> 00:35:06.079
They don't come there anymore because they're afraid they're going

535
00:35:06.159 --> 00:35:10.639
to be targeted and arrested. We need these people. No,

536
00:35:11.159 --> 00:35:14.239
there aren't poor people who want to do what the

537
00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:20.280
day laborers do who are illegal eminents our country. Will

538
00:35:20.599 --> 00:35:25.119
you guys out in California will have no more avocados

539
00:35:25.480 --> 00:35:26.880
if you don't have those people.

540
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:30.559
Yeah, well, our avocados were pretty much given away to

541
00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:32.639
Mexico as it was as far as an industry. It

542
00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:35.159
started in California and now we import it all from Mexico.

543
00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:40.880
So here's that with avocados. I don't disagree with your statements.

544
00:35:40.960 --> 00:35:43.960
This is a tricky situation because I think that we

545
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:47.079
need to enforce policies to protect our sovereignty in our borders.

546
00:35:47.159 --> 00:35:50.719
But we shouldn't be targeting everybody who looks like an

547
00:35:50.760 --> 00:35:53.199
illegal immigrant. You know, you have to you have to

548
00:35:53.239 --> 00:35:54.280
do your research.

549
00:35:54.079 --> 00:35:58.280
In that's right. If and he he Trump said he

550
00:35:58.400 --> 00:36:00.960
was going to go after those people who were criminals.

551
00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:02.159
Yes that was what he said.

552
00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:04.639
Yes, that's what he said. But he's not doing that.

553
00:36:05.079 --> 00:36:08.280
He's going into places like the home depot and rounding

554
00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:10.800
up everybody who's brown.

555
00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:12.960
Yeah, they're casting two wide of a net on this.

556
00:36:13.039 --> 00:36:16.599
I mean, I believe, I believe you and I may

557
00:36:16.599 --> 00:36:19.480
be in agreement on this. They should just go out

558
00:36:19.480 --> 00:36:22.000
for the people with the criminal records. That are obviously

559
00:36:22.039 --> 00:36:24.360
not legal but have a criminal background. They need to

560
00:36:24.360 --> 00:36:27.360
be addressed period. The way this law even works, so

561
00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:28.920
even if you have a green card, by the way,

562
00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:33.440
if you commit a crime, you are still eligible to

563
00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:36.880
be deported. You're not safe in that either until that

564
00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:40.079
you actually become a citizens. As far as you said,

565
00:36:40.119 --> 00:36:41.679
with the legal workers that will do the work in

566
00:36:41.719 --> 00:36:45.280
the fields, we do need them now at that point though,

567
00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:47.519
if they did this legally, they're not illegal. They do

568
00:36:47.599 --> 00:36:50.360
get a visa in which they are allotted a certain

569
00:36:50.360 --> 00:36:53.320
amount of time to stay here and work under a

570
00:36:53.400 --> 00:36:54.119
legal status.

571
00:36:54.599 --> 00:36:58.400
We are in total agreement. Yeah, there needs to be

572
00:36:58.760 --> 00:37:02.920
laws that are reasonable, that can be enforced absolutely, and

573
00:37:03.719 --> 00:37:07.400
we can't just have porous boilers where anybody can cross

574
00:37:07.480 --> 00:37:12.920
over and do that. Again, it requires people working together

575
00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:20.000
to sensibly work out and collaborate together to make regulations

576
00:37:20.039 --> 00:37:22.960
and rules that work and that are in the best

577
00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:24.559
interest of everyone.

578
00:37:24.679 --> 00:37:27.280
Agreed. We need to do better, period. You know, we

579
00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:29.639
need to do better. It wouldn't look so drastic if

580
00:37:29.639 --> 00:37:31.800
we didn't let it get to this point. It's the

581
00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:33.760
problem I'm having with the way Trump has hand this.

582
00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:36.960
Like I said, I agree with trying to clean up

583
00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:39.920
the mess. But he's he's taking a hammer and just hitting.

584
00:37:40.119 --> 00:37:42.320
It's like playing whackamle on whatever. Right, he's bringing down

585
00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:45.199
a hammer instead of using you know, the term kid clubs, like,

586
00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:48.239
you know, hey, let's be gentle about this. Let's let's

587
00:37:48.239 --> 00:37:53.480
try to approach this amicably. Because what gets me is

588
00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:57.480
this when you have a family and you're just taking

589
00:37:57.480 --> 00:38:00.000
the mother away after being here ten to twenty five years.

590
00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:01.920
And now I'll just put this out there, and you

591
00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:04.679
might disagree with me, doesn't matter how long you've been here.

592
00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:07.880
If you committed the crime of coming over illegally, it's

593
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:09.519
going to catch up to you eventually. Just as if

594
00:38:09.559 --> 00:38:11.119
I robbed a bank, got away with her for twenty

595
00:38:11.199 --> 00:38:12.519
years and all of a sudden the FBI finds out

596
00:38:12.519 --> 00:38:15.559
where I am and knocks on my door. That's serving justice.

597
00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:20.159
But in this case, with a family, do you think,

598
00:38:20.199 --> 00:38:22.159
and I think this, by the way, should you not

599
00:38:22.199 --> 00:38:25.360
take that situation differently? Should you not say, okay, look,

600
00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:29.119
there's a family here. She's already this mother or this

601
00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:32.519
dad has children, been here for ten fifteen years. Maybe

602
00:38:32.679 --> 00:38:35.719
negotiate to work out a program with them that they

603
00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:38.119
can take steps to make them legal or give them

604
00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:40.880
an extension, say all right, here's what's going on. We

605
00:38:40.920 --> 00:38:43.440
need you to do this, and we'll let you stay

606
00:38:43.480 --> 00:38:46.000
here for six months, for example, to get everything straight.

607
00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:48.480
How do you feel about that as a solution to

608
00:38:48.519 --> 00:38:50.760
those problems.

609
00:38:50.599 --> 00:38:54.880
George, I'm impressed that you're a sensible man. I try

610
00:38:54.920 --> 00:38:59.920
to be, and that, of course, there has to be

611
00:39:01.480 --> 00:39:08.559
sensible mechanisms for evaluating a situation. You have a situation

612
00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:12.480
where you have a family where that the children are

613
00:39:12.519 --> 00:39:16.920
a fact Americans, We're born here and the parents came

614
00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:21.360
in here illegally. We need to come up with ways

615
00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:24.320
of saying, okay, it's in the family's best interest, in

616
00:39:24.360 --> 00:39:29.239
the community's best interests to give those people a mechanism

617
00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:33.159
for becoming citizens. It's much like we talked about dreamers

618
00:39:33.199 --> 00:39:37.480
at one point, so that they had mechanisms for becoming citizens.

619
00:39:38.280 --> 00:39:41.440
We can't do things with a hammer, we can't do

620
00:39:41.519 --> 00:39:46.559
things with broad us in they statements that anybody who

621
00:39:46.639 --> 00:39:51.880
was not born here has to be eliminated. We need

622
00:39:51.920 --> 00:39:56.000
to think about what are the effects on families, on

623
00:39:56.079 --> 00:40:01.639
the community, on industries. That requires us all sitting down,

624
00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:07.400
people like you and me, talking about reasonable solutions.

625
00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:10.000
Yeah, No, you're you're correct. I mean, you're correct.

626
00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:11.840
I'm with you.

627
00:40:13.840 --> 00:40:16.039
I got my moments. Let's put that I'm never always correct.

628
00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:17.960
I mean I never always get it right. Believe me.

629
00:40:18.760 --> 00:40:22.480
It's too hard. It's too hard to be uh, you know,

630
00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:25.840
to to have a definite answer these things, as you said,

631
00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:27.440
because you know, there's a lot of gray area that's

632
00:40:27.440 --> 00:40:30.400
always ignored. It's not a black it's nothing black and white.

633
00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:32.760
You know, everybody lives in the gray. We gotta admit that.

634
00:40:32.840 --> 00:40:35.679
Nobody nobody looks it that way, at least right now

635
00:40:35.719 --> 00:40:38.079
with everything going on. It's just black white done. No,

636
00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:41.599
there's a big gray area that everybody lives in period. Yes,

637
00:40:42.039 --> 00:40:43.039
not being as.

638
00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:45.719
Again that that requires sensibility. You know, I was going

639
00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:49.480
to say this before. Sure was a philosopher named Levi Strauss.

640
00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:51.119
Do you know of him?

641
00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:53.800
I heard the name. I don't know the work.

642
00:40:53.880 --> 00:40:57.760
He taught at the University of Chicago. Uh. He was

643
00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:03.760
a Holocaust victim in Germany. Many. He escaped from Germany

644
00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:11.039
and taught philosophy at the University of Chicago, and many

645
00:41:11.079 --> 00:41:17.320
of his students were the neo cons who worked in

646
00:41:17.400 --> 00:41:27.199
the Bush won a Bush to administration and Strauss said

647
00:41:27.800 --> 00:41:32.960
it's in the best interests of the community to lie

648
00:41:33.039 --> 00:41:39.880
to them if they can't understand the issues, make up

649
00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:50.000
excuses such as weapons of mass destruction, make up those situations,

650
00:41:50.800 --> 00:41:54.119
and that will give you access to taking care of

651
00:41:54.199 --> 00:41:57.639
the people in the way that they should be taken

652
00:41:57.679 --> 00:42:02.320
care of. Unfortunately, I think Leo Strauss made a terrible error.

653
00:42:03.280 --> 00:42:08.800
You know, Plato, Plato in the Republic, many many generations ago,

654
00:42:10.440 --> 00:42:17.000
said that philosophers should be king. Unfortunately, nobody listens to them.

655
00:42:17.480 --> 00:42:20.400
They're the first ones to know there's a problem, but

656
00:42:20.480 --> 00:42:23.199
the last one to have any impact. So Strauss said, well,

657
00:42:23.239 --> 00:42:26.800
I'm not going to wait for Plato's solution to teach

658
00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:31.519
the people. We got to do it and protect people. Unfortunately,

659
00:42:31.679 --> 00:42:36.079
that's too often what is happening now in our country.

660
00:42:36.119 --> 00:42:39.480
That's been yeah for a while, right, that's the playbook.

661
00:42:39.559 --> 00:42:43.440
Tell people what they can understand, even if it's not

662
00:42:43.559 --> 00:42:47.920
the truth, and come up with solutions that they can

663
00:42:47.960 --> 00:42:51.360
buy into. And that's not just one side of the other.

664
00:42:53.239 --> 00:42:57.239
That's not taking responsibility for saying I don't have a

665
00:42:57.280 --> 00:43:00.719
solution that you'll buy into. Let's sit and I'm gonna

666
00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:03.880
keep saying this Let's come up with dialogue, Let's come

667
00:43:03.960 --> 00:43:08.280
up with consensus. Let's come up with mechanisms that bring

668
00:43:08.400 --> 00:43:12.119
people to listen to one another. You and I don't

669
00:43:12.159 --> 00:43:14.440
agree about everything, but we agree about enough that we

670
00:43:14.480 --> 00:43:17.000
can sit down and we can talk, and we could

671
00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:21.320
look for common reality. So it goes forward.

672
00:43:21.400 --> 00:43:24.039
I think I think the opposition of opinion is how

673
00:43:24.119 --> 00:43:26.159
you come to a solution in the middle. I mean,

674
00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:28.320
if you can't hear each other out, you're never going

675
00:43:28.400 --> 00:43:30.559
to come up with a solution. You're just going to

676
00:43:30.599 --> 00:43:35.039
continue to be segregated right, left, whatever. You know, it's

677
00:43:35.039 --> 00:43:39.480
just ridiculous if you can't sit down and talk about

678
00:43:39.480 --> 00:43:43.800
these issues, deal with your own emotions, angers, whatever it is.

679
00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:46.880
You have to be able to sit down, check that

680
00:43:46.920 --> 00:43:49.440
shit at the door, and just talk about the issues.

681
00:43:50.360 --> 00:43:52.760
I'll ask you, Evan, what's your view on this? Great,

682
00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:55.199
I'll take it in. I'll give you mine same thing,

683
00:43:55.639 --> 00:43:58.039
and then in our minds we're calculating I don't agree

684
00:43:58.039 --> 00:43:59.840
with that, but he made a point here. And then

685
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:02.480
bring those back together and we say, all right, here's

686
00:44:02.519 --> 00:44:03.880
here's what we have. We got we got kind of

687
00:44:03.880 --> 00:44:06.519
an outline we can start with, and we just hash

688
00:44:06.559 --> 00:44:09.039
it out right. That's the way it should That's.

689
00:44:08.800 --> 00:44:13.199
What I'm promulgating. That's my thesis. Let's sit down, let's

690
00:44:13.239 --> 00:44:16.440
hear each other, Let's understand what g need, what I need.

691
00:44:16.840 --> 00:44:18.559
Let's come up with a solution. You know, there was

692
00:44:18.599 --> 00:44:22.760
a time when when Congress worked that way for various

693
00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:26.320
other reasons. You know, I'll give you something for your farmers,

694
00:44:26.320 --> 00:44:30.800
you give me something for my industrial people, will bother

695
00:44:31.360 --> 00:44:32.719
us solutions together.

696
00:44:33.039 --> 00:44:36.079
We don't do that anymore, No, they don't. It's either

697
00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:40.400
this or nothing. Yes, especially how they pack everything with

698
00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:43.280
all this pork and try to sneakers in with these

699
00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:45.599
five thousand pages. They know nobody's going to read. Who

700
00:44:45.639 --> 00:44:47.360
has time for that? It's like, hey, we released a

701
00:44:47.360 --> 00:44:50.440
support here's Thursday. We're voting on a Friday. Who has

702
00:44:50.519 --> 00:44:53.280
time for that? Like this, it's ridiculous, you know. And

703
00:44:53.320 --> 00:44:57.039
it's always a one sided issue, always always one sided,

704
00:44:57.559 --> 00:44:59.320
and it's very ridiculous because it does leave a lot

705
00:44:59.360 --> 00:45:01.400
of people out, the needs of the actual people. That's

706
00:45:01.400 --> 00:45:02.960
what I'm getting tired of in America right now. I

707
00:45:02.960 --> 00:45:05.079
don't care who the president is, by the way, the

708
00:45:05.159 --> 00:45:08.599
reality is this country has not been looking out for

709
00:45:08.639 --> 00:45:12.000
its people. They've been playing on emotions. It's it's like

710
00:45:12.039 --> 00:45:14.440
you said earlier. I don't know if I'm correct on this,

711
00:45:14.519 --> 00:45:16.639
but it's kind of an example of what you're talking

712
00:45:16.639 --> 00:45:20.760
about earlier with Levi Strauss for example. Is that power

713
00:45:20.840 --> 00:45:23.800
over behavior? Right to me? I look at it from

714
00:45:24.320 --> 00:45:28.880
like a business owner. Okay, the government is playing a

715
00:45:28.920 --> 00:45:32.079
sigh up and they have an amazing marketing team, and

716
00:45:32.119 --> 00:45:35.000
they know how to pull on your emotions, pull on

717
00:45:35.039 --> 00:45:38.280
your heartstrings, to direct you where they want you to go.

718
00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:41.440
They're playing they're playing chess with us. Basically, that's exactly

719
00:45:41.440 --> 00:45:44.639
what they're doing. You know, we're the ponds, yes, and

720
00:45:44.719 --> 00:45:49.199
unfortunately we keep playing into their hand, they keep segreging.

721
00:45:50.360 --> 00:45:53.760
I don't know, just kind of just.

722
00:45:53.760 --> 00:45:56.480
Kind of happened. Well, your sensibility.

723
00:45:56.920 --> 00:46:00.440
I started with my brother, so he's been he's been

724
00:46:00.440 --> 00:46:04.719
a podcaster for probably nine eight nine years now, and

725
00:46:05.480 --> 00:46:08.000
I started on his show a little bit here and there.

726
00:46:08.239 --> 00:46:13.199
And I've always been into politics, philosophy, everything. I'm not

727
00:46:13.239 --> 00:46:14.599
as educated as you and it by the way, I

728
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:16.920
can't just call people's names out in quotes, but you know,

729
00:46:16.960 --> 00:46:20.079
I do like I do like it, and I've been

730
00:46:20.079 --> 00:46:21.480
interest in politics for a very long time.

731
00:46:21.519 --> 00:46:21.679
Now.

732
00:46:21.719 --> 00:46:23.159
The reason I got into this is because I hear

733
00:46:23.199 --> 00:46:26.199
a lot of people talk. I hear these shows, I

734
00:46:26.239 --> 00:46:28.679
hear these talking heads that are just reading whatever script

735
00:46:28.760 --> 00:46:30.639
on is a teleprompter, and I hear a lot of

736
00:46:30.639 --> 00:46:33.639
these other podcasters, and I'm like, they don't know what

737
00:46:33.679 --> 00:46:35.559
they're talking about, or if they do make a point.

738
00:46:35.719 --> 00:46:38.480
I just got the I just got to a position

739
00:46:38.599 --> 00:46:40.000
in my life where I said, you know what, I

740
00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:42.000
have nothing to lose. Why don't I get on the

741
00:46:42.039 --> 00:46:44.360
mic and see if I can make a difference or

742
00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:47.079
at least vent or say what's on the top off

743
00:46:47.119 --> 00:46:49.760
the top of my head. But I'll admit I say

744
00:46:49.760 --> 00:46:52.400
some outlanda shit sometimes I know that I'll say something

745
00:46:52.440 --> 00:46:56.400
and later on go you know, probably should kind of

746
00:46:56.440 --> 00:46:59.320
reel that one back a little because we do this

747
00:46:59.360 --> 00:46:59.960
in real time.

748
00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:04.280
I like your sensibility. I hope that that you get

749
00:47:04.360 --> 00:47:06.679
heard by lots of people because you're making sense.

750
00:47:07.480 --> 00:47:12.960
I appreciate that, Thank you. But the problem with doing this,

751
00:47:13.039 --> 00:47:16.719
Evan is we respond in real time, right. And I've

752
00:47:16.719 --> 00:47:19.199
said this before with other people, and I've had YouTubers,

753
00:47:19.199 --> 00:47:21.880
I've speaked to people in the Intel community people in

754
00:47:21.920 --> 00:47:25.199
the military. Like I've had very various guests and people

755
00:47:25.239 --> 00:47:28.199
I connect with since i've been doing this, and you're

756
00:47:28.239 --> 00:47:32.800
always right today, wrong tomorrow. You can't keep up with

757
00:47:32.840 --> 00:47:35.039
the news cycle. You can't keep up with what's happening,

758
00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:37.960
you know, And we live in a world of sound

759
00:47:37.960 --> 00:47:40.440
bites and clips, you know, we always get just a

760
00:47:40.440 --> 00:47:43.440
snippet of the actual information. Right everything's on social media.

761
00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:45.880
You never see the full video clip. You just see

762
00:47:45.880 --> 00:47:49.000
that one moment where they see the white guy being racist,

763
00:47:49.320 --> 00:47:54.000
for example, or the brown guy getting arrested. I'm not

764
00:47:54.039 --> 00:47:56.239
going to say whether those particular situations are right wrong,

765
00:47:56.320 --> 00:47:57.800
But we don't see the we don't get the whole

766
00:47:57.800 --> 00:48:01.039
context of what's happening, and people just eat it up,

767
00:48:02.079 --> 00:48:04.760
and they're conditioning us, just as you said, they're conditioning

768
00:48:04.840 --> 00:48:06.960
us with this. It's a tool, you know.

769
00:48:07.239 --> 00:48:13.280
I go back a long way. I was a medic

770
00:48:13.360 --> 00:48:18.320
during the Vietnam War. I decided when I got out

771
00:48:18.360 --> 00:48:19.880
of the army, I was going to go to graduate

772
00:48:19.880 --> 00:48:24.360
school in psychology and do good. And some of the

773
00:48:24.400 --> 00:48:31.400
things that I worked on turned into such disasters. For example,

774
00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:36.000
I was part of a class action suit that took

775
00:48:36.719 --> 00:48:42.760
adolescents and children off adult psychiatric units so that they

776
00:48:42.760 --> 00:48:46.519
were being treated back in the nineteen sixties and seventies

777
00:48:47.639 --> 00:48:55.280
amongst adult crazies, and it was totally inappropriate. Then I

778
00:48:55.400 --> 00:49:00.360
was part of an action to close down mental hospitals. Well,

779
00:49:00.440 --> 00:49:04.079
we had a daily census in Massachusetts between thirty and

780
00:49:04.159 --> 00:49:10.119
fifty thousand patients in psychiatric hospital state hospitals back in

781
00:49:10.159 --> 00:49:12.679
that era. You know where they are now?

782
00:49:13.239 --> 00:49:14.960
No, they're homeless.

783
00:49:16.039 --> 00:49:20.079
Yeah, well it's the same number of people in Massachusetts

784
00:49:20.079 --> 00:49:21.119
who are on the streets.

785
00:49:21.360 --> 00:49:25.159
I was since you brought that up. I've had that

786
00:49:25.320 --> 00:49:30.559
opinion because I've I've known people who are in various

787
00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:36.800
organizations that would serve the homeless community. Yes, and I

788
00:49:36.840 --> 00:49:39.679
hate to say this, but the truth of the matter

789
00:49:39.760 --> 00:49:41.760
is exactly what you said. Most of these people have

790
00:49:41.840 --> 00:49:45.079
been abandoned by the state, the government. They're no longer

791
00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:47.280
getting funded, they're not getting their medication, not getting care,

792
00:49:47.440 --> 00:49:49.360
and they're left out in the cult to figure it out.

793
00:49:50.039 --> 00:49:54.639
They can't rejoint society because they're not they're not capable

794
00:49:54.719 --> 00:49:57.320
of it. Yeah, it's it's not that they're not smart.

795
00:49:57.320 --> 00:50:00.480
For example, what it was just they lacked social skills

796
00:50:00.559 --> 00:50:02.199
or whatever it is that will allow them to.

797
00:50:02.519 --> 00:50:07.440
They're truly sick people. And the fact is we, in

798
00:50:07.519 --> 00:50:12.320
doing our do gooding, close the mental hospitals. Well it's

799
00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:15.159
not by chance. That's the same number of people that

800
00:50:15.239 --> 00:50:18.440
today are on the street.

801
00:50:18.639 --> 00:50:22.679
What okay, let's get back to that. What was behind

802
00:50:22.760 --> 00:50:26.000
closing that? What was behind closing the mental hospitals? Did

803
00:50:26.039 --> 00:50:28.599
they claim it was financial? Was it like? What?

804
00:50:28.840 --> 00:50:31.880
No? They claimed that the people weren't being treated adequately,

805
00:50:31.960 --> 00:50:36.519
they weren't being treated humanly. Really well, again in retrospect,

806
00:50:36.599 --> 00:50:40.119
they were being treated more humanely in the mental hospital

807
00:50:40.159 --> 00:50:43.599
than they are today on the street sleeping in their fecings.

808
00:50:44.239 --> 00:50:46.920
So again, we thought we were getting them to a

809
00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:51.119
place where they could be treated within the community and

810
00:50:51.280 --> 00:50:54.480
cared for by the community. Community it didn't want them.

811
00:50:54.920 --> 00:50:57.559
So you know, we tried to set up halfway houses.

812
00:50:57.840 --> 00:51:01.119
Somebody wanted one in their neighborhood, not mine neighborhood. I

813
00:51:01.119 --> 00:51:02.559
don't want to be part of a solution.

814
00:51:03.480 --> 00:51:06.880
There's I mean, you know, because this is what you did.

815
00:51:06.960 --> 00:51:10.000
I don't. But from what I've read and what I've

816
00:51:11.079 --> 00:51:17.159
seen documentaries and whatnot, not an expert, but the mental

817
00:51:17.159 --> 00:51:22.280
hospitals were definitely an issue when psychology was in its

818
00:51:22.280 --> 00:51:25.000
infant stages, when it was very experimental. Still they're trying

819
00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:26.480
to figure that out. But it did get to a

820
00:51:26.519 --> 00:51:31.480
point where they got a handle on the abuse. But

821
00:51:31.599 --> 00:51:33.480
yet even after that it did get better, but they

822
00:51:33.519 --> 00:51:36.119
still decided this isn't good enough. Put these people out

823
00:51:36.159 --> 00:51:38.679
on the street. That's just crazy.

824
00:51:39.920 --> 00:51:43.280
I've worked with Yako Sekoa, for example, who's in Finland

825
00:51:44.199 --> 00:51:51.039
and back in the Scandinavian countries. The community works together

826
00:51:51.960 --> 00:51:55.639
to treat the people in the community who are sick.

827
00:51:56.920 --> 00:52:03.840
They pitch in, they all have roles. Small homogeneous communities

828
00:52:04.320 --> 00:52:08.599
that care for their own. Our communities are too diverse.

829
00:52:09.400 --> 00:52:14.039
There people don't care about what's happening down the street.

830
00:52:14.960 --> 00:52:23.039
It's unfortunate. Churches no longer. When I first started doing psychotherapy,

831
00:52:23.320 --> 00:52:26.320
I spoke at every church in my town. They all

832
00:52:26.360 --> 00:52:28.519
called me in to talk about how they can work

833
00:52:28.559 --> 00:52:31.599
together to do things in their own community. But people

834
00:52:31.599 --> 00:52:32.840
don't go to church anymore.

835
00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:35.719
No. Let me ask this, why do you think people

836
00:52:35.719 --> 00:52:37.519
don't care? Though? When it comes to the people on

837
00:52:37.559 --> 00:52:40.440
the streets and the homeless, like everyone, it's.

838
00:52:40.400 --> 00:52:45.079
Not me, it's them. It's us versus them. I'm not that.

839
00:52:45.159 --> 00:52:49.599
Problem understood, I get that, but what caused that? I

840
00:52:49.639 --> 00:52:52.559
remember a time where people were more generous, and then

841
00:52:52.760 --> 00:52:56.960
I think it was sometime in the nineties, it just

842
00:52:57.039 --> 00:52:58.960
kind of flipped, like all of a sudden, people just

843
00:52:59.039 --> 00:53:02.760
stopped caring. Yes, you know, they weren't giving them a

844
00:53:02.760 --> 00:53:06.800
dollar for example, or buying people food. I'm gonna say

845
00:53:06.800 --> 00:53:09.119
this because I've experienced this myself, and I know this

846
00:53:09.159 --> 00:53:11.519
from inside information with people who work in the missions

847
00:53:11.559 --> 00:53:15.960
and whatnot. There are literally people who gave up on society.

848
00:53:16.039 --> 00:53:17.519
Not just sick, but they just don't want to deal

849
00:53:17.559 --> 00:53:20.320
with anything and they find that living on the street

850
00:53:20.360 --> 00:53:22.880
suits them better. That's not the majority, by the way,

851
00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:26.800
but those people are there. Yeah, And I think that

852
00:53:26.840 --> 00:53:29.639
people stopped caring because they realized, you know, with all

853
00:53:29.639 --> 00:53:32.639
the stories coming out and they themselves just being scammed.

854
00:53:32.679 --> 00:53:35.480
Like even in my town, I we would see the

855
00:53:35.480 --> 00:53:39.239
same person pulled the same scam over and over for

856
00:53:39.400 --> 00:53:42.840
two three years, always pregnant, always just got dropped off

857
00:53:42.840 --> 00:53:46.400
at the bus. One year I recognized here and realized, Hey,

858
00:53:46.559 --> 00:53:51.039
weren't you just saying this like last year? Yeah, you're

859
00:53:51.039 --> 00:53:54.920
still pregnant with the same baby. And I think those

860
00:53:55.159 --> 00:53:59.880
unfortunate circumstances, those unfortunate examples, by the way, is what

861
00:54:00.280 --> 00:54:03.039
led people to stop caring. They just feel like, I'm

862
00:54:03.039 --> 00:54:04.679
not making a difference, and these people were just trying

863
00:54:04.719 --> 00:54:05.599
to take advantage of me.

864
00:54:06.800 --> 00:54:13.199
When I went to school back in I started college

865
00:54:13.199 --> 00:54:18.599
in nineteen sixty four and I went through to get

866
00:54:18.639 --> 00:54:23.880
my doctorate. Back then, all the smart people that I

867
00:54:23.920 --> 00:54:32.079
knew were going into professions like psychology or medicine, nursing, education, law.

868
00:54:34.360 --> 00:54:37.679
They all had a mission to make the community better.

869
00:54:39.400 --> 00:54:42.679
Sometime after the Vietnam War, sometime around the time of

870
00:54:42.800 --> 00:54:48.199
Ronald Reagan, the ethos changed to I'm going to make money.

871
00:54:48.679 --> 00:54:52.119
I'm going to be a successful business person. The smart

872
00:54:52.159 --> 00:54:58.519
people went to either business school or engineering. Yeah, and

873
00:54:59.320 --> 00:55:03.920
they know longer had a vested interest in making the

874
00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:07.599
community better. They came to the notion that they're going

875
00:55:07.679 --> 00:55:10.920
to make their own lives better. And I think that

876
00:55:11.039 --> 00:55:15.199
has persisted. I know with even my grandchildren saying to me,

877
00:55:15.679 --> 00:55:18.320
I have a grandson that graduated high school last week

878
00:55:18.920 --> 00:55:23.079
and he's going to go to the business school at

879
00:55:23.079 --> 00:55:25.800
Boston College. And I said, why are you doing that.

880
00:55:26.559 --> 00:55:28.119
He said, what I mean, why am I doing that?

881
00:55:28.159 --> 00:55:30.840
He said, I'm really smart. I'm going to be really successful.

882
00:55:30.880 --> 00:55:33.000
I'm going to make a lot of money. I said,

883
00:55:33.000 --> 00:55:36.559
but you know what, you are so smart, you are

884
00:55:36.960 --> 00:55:41.519
so capable of making the world a better place. Why

885
00:55:41.559 --> 00:55:45.320
aren't you thinking in those terms? He said? Come on, Granddad,

886
00:55:45.400 --> 00:55:50.159
come on, Grandpa, you're you're you're talking like those those

887
00:55:50.360 --> 00:55:52.599
hippies of the that you grew up with.

888
00:55:55.079 --> 00:55:58.159
I don't I mean now that you say it, I mean,

889
00:55:58.199 --> 00:56:02.719
I do see that there's been less interest in professions

890
00:56:02.719 --> 00:56:05.920
that actually serve the community or even consider the humanitarian

891
00:56:05.920 --> 00:56:09.639
effort right. And even the arts is on the decline,

892
00:56:09.679 --> 00:56:10.360
I believe.

893
00:56:10.599 --> 00:56:11.880
Yeah, even the arts.

894
00:56:12.599 --> 00:56:16.159
It's it's sad. And yes, the eighties was the age

895
00:56:16.280 --> 00:56:18.320
of business, you know, the power suit, the power tie

896
00:56:18.320 --> 00:56:20.119
of the whole deal. It was all about more and

897
00:56:20.119 --> 00:56:23.199
more money, you know, so when stock market just it

898
00:56:23.280 --> 00:56:28.440
was just crazy. Yeah, you may, I think you're onto

899
00:56:28.440 --> 00:56:30.920
something there, you know. Definitely was a me first attitude

900
00:56:31.480 --> 00:56:34.079
that really that really started went from.

901
00:56:33.760 --> 00:56:37.599
A community concern to me first.

902
00:56:37.800 --> 00:56:44.239
Yeah, absolutely, it was a me first attitude. Let's let's

903
00:56:44.239 --> 00:56:46.880
get back to California a bit and it's not just California.

904
00:56:46.920 --> 00:56:49.159
I mean there there was a big organized protest on

905
00:56:49.239 --> 00:56:53.199
June fourteenth, Trump's birthday or the Army's birthday. However you

906
00:56:53.239 --> 00:56:57.440
want to look at that, you know what? Good? Let

907
00:56:57.440 --> 00:56:59.000
me ask you this, what are your what are your

908
00:56:59.079 --> 00:57:03.320
thoughts of what happened in California? Though, I mean we

909
00:57:03.360 --> 00:57:08.079
did discuss some of it already, but the fighting, infighting

910
00:57:08.119 --> 00:57:14.800
between the governor, you know, Newsom, Karen Bass, the lack

911
00:57:14.840 --> 00:57:17.760
of response. Again, I'm not this isn't This isn't me

912
00:57:17.840 --> 00:57:21.159
saying right versus left, Trump versus whatever. This is literally

913
00:57:22.199 --> 00:57:25.159
pointing out I believe the error and the lack of

914
00:57:25.239 --> 00:57:30.039
response to a situation. What do you think the reasoning

915
00:57:30.159 --> 00:57:35.760
was behind that? Aside aside from political theater? Why did

916
00:57:35.800 --> 00:57:39.679
Karen Bass not respond with the police and it didn't

917
00:57:39.719 --> 00:57:41.239
have to be in a violent way, just to control,

918
00:57:41.639 --> 00:57:45.719
just have a presence. And why did Governor Newsom not

919
00:57:46.239 --> 00:57:49.400
respond either? What's your thoughts on that?

920
00:57:50.079 --> 00:57:52.599
Well? I don't know if I'm the right person to

921
00:57:52.719 --> 00:57:55.119
respond to that, but sure you are. I thought they

922
00:57:55.119 --> 00:58:00.960
did respond, Okay, I thought that they were concerned that

923
00:58:02.079 --> 00:58:04.320
and this is I'm concerned about it in my own community.

924
00:58:04.559 --> 00:58:11.039
I'm joining an action committee to protect immigrants. That you

925
00:58:11.119 --> 00:58:16.679
can't have ice come into your community and rip people

926
00:58:16.880 --> 00:58:19.239
out of their homes.

927
00:58:19.400 --> 00:58:22.000
We at their jobs. Yeah, we discussed. Agree.

928
00:58:23.159 --> 00:58:26.800
I think that it was a huge provocation on the

929
00:58:26.840 --> 00:58:33.840
part of the federal government to start mobilizing. We had

930
00:58:33.840 --> 00:58:37.239
a situation a couple of weeks ago in Nantucket with

931
00:58:37.400 --> 00:58:41.320
around that up forty four people who worked in hotels

932
00:58:41.480 --> 00:58:45.320
and restaurants in Nantucket and put them in a boat

933
00:58:45.360 --> 00:58:48.639
and took them away. They had no due process. So

934
00:58:48.679 --> 00:58:55.239
I think their first concern was that you can't you

935
00:58:55.360 --> 00:58:58.880
can't go into a community and do this without people

936
00:58:58.960 --> 00:59:05.079
being offended, without people being put in danger. And my

937
00:59:05.719 --> 00:59:09.519
sense is that there has been a response on the

938
00:59:09.559 --> 00:59:13.679
part of California government. There was enough police that were

939
00:59:14.000 --> 00:59:17.880
that kept it contained. There was some bad apples, but

940
00:59:18.639 --> 00:59:25.199
they mostly contained to a small area. The provocation provocators.

941
00:59:26.079 --> 00:59:34.239
So I think Trump came in with his guys, escalating

942
00:59:34.280 --> 00:59:38.159
the crisis to something that was way beyond what we

943
00:59:38.280 --> 00:59:43.039
really was called for. The National Guard, the Marines.

944
00:59:44.159 --> 00:59:48.239
The marine should never be deployed on us Soilian citizens period,

945
00:59:48.840 --> 00:59:50.519
that's not what they do.

946
00:59:50.360 --> 00:59:52.440
What they do and the same thing what are the

947
00:59:52.519 --> 00:59:55.960
National Guard doing? Two thousand National guardsmen are protecting the

948
00:59:56.000 --> 01:00:00.480
federal buildings. Come on, the police have to do this, And.

949
01:00:00.639 --> 01:00:05.639
That's a bit much, honestly. But the lack of response

950
01:00:05.719 --> 01:00:07.880
I was referring to was, Yes, the police were there,

951
01:00:09.239 --> 01:00:12.679
but they did not get deployed until Trump said he

952
01:00:12.719 --> 01:00:17.639
was going to send the National Guard. Yeah, and even

953
01:00:18.159 --> 01:00:22.000
Newsom refused to send in the National Guard. Now, I

954
01:00:22.039 --> 01:00:23.480
agree with you that I don't think there was a

955
01:00:23.519 --> 01:00:25.800
need for it. There's more more than enough law enforcement

956
01:00:25.800 --> 01:00:29.519
out there to handle the situation. It really is. Was

957
01:00:29.559 --> 01:00:32.199
a National Guard needed, I don't believe in this situation,

958
01:00:32.239 --> 01:00:34.400
But yet they were called in nineteen ninety two during

959
01:00:34.400 --> 01:00:37.159
the Rodden King riots. There were many examples of when

960
01:00:37.159 --> 01:00:39.960
the National Guard was called to control riots and protests

961
01:00:39.960 --> 01:00:43.159
that just got out of hand. Yes, the response to

962
01:00:43.239 --> 01:00:44.920
the National Guard being sent and taking over of the

963
01:00:44.960 --> 01:00:47.800
president is a lawful order. And actually, if you go

964
01:00:47.840 --> 01:00:49.559
to the National Guard's website even says it right there it

965
01:00:49.559 --> 01:00:51.320
can be called by any time by any governor and

966
01:00:51.360 --> 01:00:54.159
the president of the United States. So I'm just going

967
01:00:54.239 --> 01:00:56.000
to put that out there because that is fact. But

968
01:00:57.360 --> 01:00:59.760
was it needed. No, I don't think so.

969
01:01:00.039 --> 01:01:05.599
Again, I'm not saying it's illegal. I'm saying it was

970
01:01:05.679 --> 01:01:13.719
provocative today that the FBI handcuffed through Senator Padilla.

971
01:01:13.400 --> 01:01:15.079
To the girl. I got to look at that. That's

972
01:01:15.199 --> 01:01:15.800
that's crazy.

973
01:01:16.360 --> 01:01:20.239
It's all over the news today and and handcuffed him.

974
01:01:20.559 --> 01:01:24.360
That's that's not that's not how you treat people. If

975
01:01:24.360 --> 01:01:28.119
you treat a United States senator that way, how is

976
01:01:28.159 --> 01:01:32.679
the little guy who works at the local.

977
01:01:33.480 --> 01:01:37.480
How is it going to feel feel again, it'll be truated. Absolutely. So,

978
01:01:37.559 --> 01:01:38.960
I didn't see it. I didn't see the reports. You.

979
01:01:39.000 --> 01:01:40.599
I don't know why I did. This wasn't on my radar.

980
01:01:40.639 --> 01:01:43.079
It's what I do is it's crazy. So so what

981
01:01:43.079 --> 01:01:46.280
were the circumstances? Like he was doing nothing other than hey,

982
01:01:46.280 --> 01:01:48.159
I'm going to question you on what you're doing and

983
01:01:48.159 --> 01:01:49.480
what's happening. That was it.

984
01:01:49.599 --> 01:01:54.880
Yeah. Christy Nome, the Secretary of Homeland Security, was speaking

985
01:01:54.880 --> 01:02:00.000
and talking about how the Democrats failed society. Los Angeles

986
01:02:00.039 --> 01:02:03.480
would have been burnt down if it wasn't for their response,

987
01:02:04.280 --> 01:02:07.800
and he walked up and said, I want to ask

988
01:02:07.840 --> 01:02:12.719
you some questions, and they they man handled him, they

989
01:02:12.719 --> 01:02:13.480
threw him down.

990
01:02:13.679 --> 01:02:17.679
They yeah, that's that's not right.

991
01:02:17.800 --> 01:02:21.280
That's again, it's not right out of hand.

992
01:02:21.920 --> 01:02:24.360
And that's the problem right now with the Trump administration

993
01:02:24.679 --> 01:02:27.079
at this moment, they had an opportunity to do the

994
01:02:27.159 --> 01:02:29.880
right thing. The actions like this does not work in

995
01:02:29.880 --> 01:02:32.519
a favor. That's just this just supports what people are

996
01:02:32.519 --> 01:02:37.559
saying about him being authoritarian, tyrannical. It's not a good

997
01:02:37.559 --> 01:02:38.599
look period.

998
01:02:39.679 --> 01:02:39.760
No.

999
01:02:39.840 --> 01:02:42.679
I yeah, I got to look at that. That that

1000
01:02:42.800 --> 01:02:44.880
is just crazy that they treated U Patia that way.

1001
01:02:46.079 --> 01:02:48.599
And you know, even even in the Trump admint like

1002
01:02:48.639 --> 01:02:52.800
my brother's very admin, we're not we're conservative. But even

1003
01:02:52.840 --> 01:02:55.519
he always says on his show is like, I'm conservative,

1004
01:02:55.519 --> 01:02:57.320
but I didn't vote for Trump. That's what he always says.

1005
01:02:57.320 --> 01:02:59.320
He goes. I don't agree with how he handles himself.

1006
01:02:59.320 --> 01:03:03.760
I don't think he's presidential. I don't think he's presidential either.

1007
01:03:04.480 --> 01:03:07.039
And the reality is I like some of the stuff

1008
01:03:07.039 --> 01:03:08.840
he does. But I mean, like I told you, eur

1009
01:03:08.920 --> 01:03:11.760
last crushed my head on a lot, like I don't

1010
01:03:11.800 --> 01:03:15.599
think this is the way, you know, I really don't.

1011
01:03:16.559 --> 01:03:23.119
Again my senses, you need to see people as you

1012
01:03:23.159 --> 01:03:27.400
see yourself, agreed. I mean that says ultimate golden rule, right,

1013
01:03:27.840 --> 01:03:30.519
Tree deficis as you would have them treat you absolutely

1014
01:03:31.000 --> 01:03:33.280
what will need to have a view of the world

1015
01:03:33.320 --> 01:03:36.400
that I am not better or different than you are.

1016
01:03:36.599 --> 01:03:39.239
We both have interests, we both have to take care

1017
01:03:39.280 --> 01:03:39.719
of each other.

1018
01:03:39.719 --> 01:03:41.599
Oh, I absolutely agree with you. I was going to

1019
01:03:41.639 --> 01:03:44.800
say something about the Trump administration and that The other

1020
01:03:44.840 --> 01:03:48.920
thing that stood out is the fumbling of many things

1021
01:03:48.920 --> 01:03:52.679
that were promised that haven't been delivered. You know, we're

1022
01:03:52.679 --> 01:03:55.880
still looking at Epstein files that are allegedly now there's

1023
01:03:55.920 --> 01:03:57.719
no video, there's no evidence. Even though they have like

1024
01:03:57.760 --> 01:04:02.840
a ten plus year investigation regarding Epstein, suddenly nothing exists,

1025
01:04:02.920 --> 01:04:06.360
nothing's viable, we can't release anything. There's nothing there, which

1026
01:04:06.400 --> 01:04:09.280
is ridiculous. And then they give the binders to a

1027
01:04:09.280 --> 01:04:13.679
bunch of social media influencers. You know what kind of

1028
01:04:13.719 --> 01:04:17.320
move was that that there's a lot of stupidity. I

1029
01:04:17.360 --> 01:04:23.039
think that is not winning winning the people over. It

1030
01:04:23.119 --> 01:04:27.639
really isn't. He has some people in his administration that

1031
01:04:27.679 --> 01:04:30.280
should not be in the positions they're in. The one

1032
01:04:30.320 --> 01:04:33.000
thing that was surprising to me is he does have

1033
01:04:33.119 --> 01:04:35.800
some people that were from the Democrat Party that came over.

1034
01:04:35.840 --> 01:04:38.239
But you know those people such as you know RF K.

1035
01:04:38.360 --> 01:04:40.639
Junior and whatnot. Don't feel that they're part of that

1036
01:04:40.639 --> 01:04:44.719
party anymore. But still some of his administration. Even he himself,

1037
01:04:44.760 --> 01:04:48.480
by the way, is not necessarily a true conservative. I

1038
01:04:48.480 --> 01:04:50.599
don't know where he is. I don't even know where

1039
01:04:50.599 --> 01:04:51.039
he sits.

1040
01:04:52.360 --> 01:04:55.920
I mean, where did he come up with this tariff idea?

1041
01:04:57.840 --> 01:05:03.960
I mean it comes from Navarro. Navarro is not a

1042
01:05:04.000 --> 01:05:10.159
credible economist, and he hires Navarro to make this tariff

1043
01:05:10.199 --> 01:05:14.440
policy for him. Where does he come off? And picking

1044
01:05:15.199 --> 01:05:19.480
Hexa as the Secretary of Defense agreed these guys have

1045
01:05:19.639 --> 01:05:21.559
no credibility.

1046
01:05:22.840 --> 01:05:28.920
I I might argue with you in that the whole

1047
01:05:29.000 --> 01:05:30.960
terrif idea. I understand what he was trying to do.

1048
01:05:31.039 --> 01:05:32.440
I'm not saying it was the right thing to do

1049
01:05:32.639 --> 01:05:36.480
in modern times, Okay, but you know, we were a

1050
01:05:36.519 --> 01:05:39.159
tariff nation. This is fact. We did make our money

1051
01:05:39.199 --> 01:05:41.199
on teriffs. But there was also a different world back then.

1052
01:05:41.280 --> 01:05:44.639
It was not as interwoven as it is now. You know,

1053
01:05:44.760 --> 01:05:45.239
of course.

1054
01:05:45.280 --> 01:05:48.159
I mean, you can't make an airplane with parts just

1055
01:05:48.199 --> 01:05:49.280
from the United States.

1056
01:05:49.360 --> 01:05:50.159
Not not gonna happen.

1057
01:05:50.480 --> 01:05:56.599
It's a world economy. It's such a myopic response against simplistic.

1058
01:05:56.199 --> 01:05:59.280
I think Trump's approach was literally, it's a tit for

1059
01:05:59.360 --> 01:06:02.119
tat right, Hey, you're charging me two hundred percent. We've

1060
01:06:02.119 --> 01:06:03.800
done nothing about it. Well, hell, I'm going to charge

1061
01:06:03.800 --> 01:06:07.159
you two hundred percent now. Yeah. Over the countries he

1062
01:06:07.199 --> 01:06:09.880
did that with it's a zero, right.

1063
01:06:09.920 --> 01:06:15.119
Who sell vanilla? And and and agreed. Of course they

1064
01:06:15.119 --> 01:06:17.599
buy more than them, We buy from them.

1065
01:06:18.480 --> 01:06:23.599
Right, stupid. But it's it's a to me, it's a

1066
01:06:23.679 --> 01:06:29.119
race to zero because it's it's meant, it's meant the intention,

1067
01:06:29.519 --> 01:06:31.639
I could, I could read right through it. I understand

1068
01:06:31.639 --> 01:06:34.079
the intention. Oh, this will get people to focus on

1069
01:06:34.159 --> 01:06:37.920
domestic production, things made here in the USA. Yeah, but

1070
01:06:37.920 --> 01:06:39.880
we're not set up for that yet. Like I said earlier,

1071
01:06:39.880 --> 01:06:43.800
he uses a hammer without giving you know, a defined,

1072
01:06:44.320 --> 01:06:47.719
guided step of how to get there. You can't just

1073
01:06:47.719 --> 01:06:50.360
say we're gonna turn it off. Now. I can see

1074
01:06:50.360 --> 01:06:52.880
this being a ten year plan, maybe even a fifteen

1075
01:06:52.920 --> 01:06:55.199
year plan, but it can't be a tomorrow plan. And

1076
01:06:55.199 --> 01:06:58.920
it's just hurting everybody in regards to what everybody says. Look,

1077
01:06:59.800 --> 01:07:02.719
inflation might be dolistic, yeah, exactly.

1078
01:07:02.559 --> 01:07:06.679
Plistic solution to complex problems.

1079
01:07:06.360 --> 01:07:10.440
Agreed, and inflation may be down, But then the economy

1080
01:07:10.480 --> 01:07:14.159
itself is not doing so good right now. You know,

1081
01:07:14.239 --> 01:07:17.199
it really isn't even in my industry. It's like it's

1082
01:07:17.280 --> 01:07:20.039
it's almost like they just suck the air out of it.

1083
01:07:20.039 --> 01:07:22.800
It's it feels almost like pandemic level business right now,

1084
01:07:22.840 --> 01:07:25.039
back in the COVID times for a lot of people

1085
01:07:25.079 --> 01:07:27.920
in my industry and a lot of industries. It's it's

1086
01:07:27.960 --> 01:07:29.559
not my industry too.

1087
01:07:29.719 --> 01:07:34.599
I mean you as well again. Medicine and psychology, the

1088
01:07:34.639 --> 01:07:42.280
whole ancillary medical field is being run by large corporations

1089
01:07:42.280 --> 01:07:45.480
that are making money at the expense of the people

1090
01:07:45.519 --> 01:07:50.039
who need a benefit from these services. Yeah, it's we

1091
01:07:50.119 --> 01:07:51.559
need to rethink things.

1092
01:07:51.719 --> 01:07:53.519
How is how is it to go?

1093
01:07:53.639 --> 01:07:54.320
Unfortunately?

1094
01:07:54.400 --> 01:07:58.840
Ah, I've enjoyed our talk. I was just going to

1095
01:07:58.880 --> 01:08:01.400
get into the insurance part of it. But that's the fine. No,

1096
01:08:01.559 --> 01:08:04.480
I appreciate your time. Tell everybody about your book, where

1097
01:08:04.519 --> 01:08:06.480
they can get it and how they can find you.

1098
01:08:06.559 --> 01:08:12.519
Yeah, it's on all the major outlets. Amazon, you can

1099
01:08:12.559 --> 01:08:20.199
get on it. Most bookstores you can order it through

1100
01:08:20.199 --> 01:08:25.439
their catalogs. I hope people who liked what I've had

1101
01:08:25.479 --> 01:08:28.079
to say and the ideas that I've expressed will go

1102
01:08:28.119 --> 01:08:31.239
out and buy the book. I think it's particularly relevant

1103
01:08:31.239 --> 01:08:32.920
to today's community.

1104
01:08:33.199 --> 01:08:35.239
No, it is, and I'd love to pick this up

1105
01:08:35.239 --> 01:08:36.680
again because it sounds like you and I have a

1106
01:08:36.720 --> 01:08:37.840
lot to talk about.

1107
01:08:38.479 --> 01:08:40.680
Yeah, I'd love to talk with you more. Georgia. I

1108
01:08:41.399 --> 01:08:44.960
think you're being sensible. It's nice to see sensible people

1109
01:08:45.000 --> 01:08:49.159
who are not being driven by some alternative philosophy.

1110
01:08:49.520 --> 01:08:52.000
I appreciate that, and same for you. I mean, it's

1111
01:08:52.039 --> 01:08:53.199
all about what you said. We need to come to

1112
01:08:53.199 --> 01:08:55.600
the table, we need to discuss these issues, and we

1113
01:08:56.119 --> 01:08:57.800
need to live in reality. I mean, we need to

1114
01:08:57.800 --> 01:08:59.439
be realistic about it, but.

1115
01:08:59.439 --> 01:09:00.439
We also need to listen.

1116
01:09:00.600 --> 01:09:04.560
Absolutely, we didn't listen to each other. I agree, absolutely.

1117
01:09:05.000 --> 01:09:08.199
Thank you Evan, and thank you George again.

1118
01:09:08.199 --> 01:09:08.840
It's a pleasure.

1119
01:09:08.840 --> 01:09:12.000
I'm sure we'll talk again, all right, I'd okay, sir,

1120
01:09:13.960 --> 01:09:16.920
all right, as usual, Thanks for sticking around and either

1121
01:09:16.960 --> 01:09:20.920
listening or watching or both, and please like subscribe to

1122
01:09:20.920 --> 01:09:24.720
share the show, and as always, have a great day

1123
01:09:27.000 --> 01:09:31.079
days your content, feel attention.

1124
01:09:31.600 --> 01:09:36.399
Deviltemption stands on my
Evan Longin Profile Photo
Evan Longin

Author / Psychologist / Speaker

Evan Longin has a long history of confronting the unintended consequences of civilization. From his earliest days in the fields of psychology and education, he has worked with institutions and individuals who are struggling with the difficulties of society. As a doctoral student at Boston University, he was a fellow with the Division of Legal Medicine, helping incarcerated youth. As a postdoctoral extern at the Nathan Ackerman Family Institute, in the early days of family therapy, he became aware of the limitations of psychotherapy theory. Longin taught for over twenty-five years at Salem State University, where he was a professor of graduate counseling. He has practiced clinical psychology for over forty years. He also has worked as a consultant to school systems in the Salem, Massachusetts area; cofounded-- the Salem Center, a training center for postmodern practices in therapy; and was a principal at Artsbridge, an organization dedicated to bringing Islamic and Jewish children together in Palestine and Israel. He has three children and five grandsons. They, of course, taught him the most about curiosity and love.